Shop now Shop now Shop now Shop All Amazon Fashion Summer Savings Up to 25% Off Cloud Drive Photos Shop now Learn More Shop now Shop now Shop Fire Shop Kindle Oasis Listen in Prime Shop now Learn more
Customer Discussions > religion discussion forum

God Does Not Exist Because. . . (2)

This discussion has reached the maximum length permitted, and cannot accept new replies. Start a new discussion


Sort: Oldest first | Newest first
Showing 101-125 of 1000 posts in this discussion
In reply to an earlier post on 18 Nov 2010 10:04:40 GMT
Fidel!

How kind of you!

I hope you enjoy my next post which I was just about to send when I read your kind words. You make me feel better already!

In reply to an earlier post on 18 Nov 2010 10:05:04 GMT
Yeah sorry, there's actually two Gothmogs. One is the Balrog, the other the Orc commander in LOTR. But yeah you're right, it was Morgoth.

I was horrified to read in another thread that Sauron might not be real! Luckily my faith held and I still believe in the power of the one ring.

Posted on 18 Nov 2010 10:05:30 GMT
[Customers don't think this post adds to the discussion. Show post anyway. Show all unhelpful posts.]

In reply to an earlier post on 18 Nov 2010 10:15:59 GMT
Last edited by the author on 18 Nov 2010 10:18:17 GMT
"and other such tiresome words which I won't bother to quote."

What you mean like 99.99% of your mindless ****? A great example is this quote:

"but the most important thing about a paradox is that it is true."

Seriously Paul? Ok fair enough.

You say:

"If he believes as he writes, he really does not understand the normal Christian point of view. Christians know that Christ loves us all. He wants us all to join Him and His Father and Holy Spirit in paradise where He has made a home for all those that love Him. If atheists, through no fault of their own (many of them do not even believe that they have free-will, so they could not possibly be responsible for their actions) do not know or understand these things, we Christians are still delighted that Christ allows them into his heavenly home. God is infinitely loving and merciful and we Christians delight in this. If we act badly with more understanding and knowledge than many atheists, our responsibility is all the greater. It is of course true that there are paradoxes here, but the most important thing about a paradox is that it is true."

What, and you just erase the 100's of years in which Christians (and other religions) burned, tortured and otherwise murdered those who didn't have the same idea about an imaginary after-life as them? don't tell me Christians became enlightened in the period from then to now Paul, that doesn't fly with me.

"Two men want to cross the jungle. One chooses to take a guide who knows the jungle well. The other chooses to go it alone. The first crosses the jungle easily and smoothly. The second has a very rough time and is missing for weeks. Do you think the first man does not wish the second to come out well at the end of it all?"

Depends, is one a born again christian and the other a member of Al Qaeda? I'm fairly sure that they'd be placing traps in the forest hoping the otherone fell into them.

You know Paul (love the sarcasm by the way, heavily Christian of you man, fine example you set for the rest of us eh??), it's pretty rich of you to say "other such tiresome words which I won't bother to quote" when the majoirty of your posts toy with philosophical, nay, probably even theological (although theology is a joke) concepts that you have no clue about and have clearly never read. The 'Free-will/determinist' debate for example framed in the Structure Agency debate that I've highlighted before. But no, marching onwards and upwards like a good christian soldier, even higher in the rafters of ignorance than you were previously.

Seriously though, good to see you back.

Btw. What's the 'new little world', do you mean this thread?

In reply to an earlier post on 18 Nov 2010 10:19:35 GMT
ThulŽatan says:
You know your Middle-earth history. Respect!

Pfft, if Sauron was not real, how would we have free will?

In reply to an earlier post on 18 Nov 2010 10:22:39 GMT
Last edited by the author on 18 Nov 2010 10:26:46 GMT
Haha, not as well as you obviously, the Morgoth thing was schoolboy in its error ratio =[

Yeah I know right? Sauron totally like, explains free will and that? I mean, if it wasn't for Sauron, how would I like, drive a car? or walk? or exist for that matter?

EDIT: ThulŽatan I also share your love for FF XII, an amazing title, one of the best in recent history. Took me ages to take down Omega and the big Wyrm at the end of the guild quests (forgot its name, sorry). Compared to the upscaled FF XIII, it's far far better. What's your fave FF so far? I'm gonna have to be a fanboy and say 7, but with 8, 10 and 12 being right behind on an equaly setting.

In reply to an earlier post on 18 Nov 2010 10:47:40 GMT
ThulŽatan says:
Ooh nice, always good to meet another fan. The big wyrm - Yiazmat - was an epic quest for me too. Omega I think I only managed to beat because I have the US version where it only has 1 million HP, rather than 10 million (congratulations if you defeated the latter version!) Taking everything into account my favourite of the series is 8, though 7 is very close behind and has the better story I think. Despite some of the odd departures in 13, I have to say I loved that one too... that game definitely transported me.

In reply to an earlier post on 18 Nov 2010 10:55:03 GMT
Pendragon,

Yes I do accept that there is no evidence. My point to the atheists who constantly demand evidence of me, is that they are not willing to produce evidence to produce their stance... using 'does not believe in god' as an excuse.

It is the consequences of the each 'worldview' that often needs more explanation. I have often coming across both groups making statements as though everybody in the world should agree with them, when the two worldviews are clearly in opposition to one another and not everyone does agree with said statement.

Rather than justifying the statement as 'I'm an atheist and that is why I hold to that statement', the accusations go along the lines of 'you are a theist, so your worldview is based on a false premise [because you can't prove it], which therefore immediately negates any counter statement you make'

This constantly turning back to 'you can't prove what you believe in' becomes an excuse for lazy thinking and means that atheists seem to regurtitate the same old arguments because they have never engaged with the theists rebuttals, but dismissed them.

Theists are not immune to this type of behaviour either (including myself on occasion), but the ideal would be for all to see how the preconditioning of their worldview can actually push them into making statements that don't actually have any relevance to another persons worldview.

Wayne

In reply to an earlier post on 18 Nov 2010 11:00:21 GMT
Fidel

Just to respond to your last little question to me:

>>> Btw. What's the 'new little world', do you mean this thread?

No. Although I am not a believer in fairy-tales or multi-verses (unlike some from other strange camps, I prefer to stick with the one we know and the only one for which we have evidence) I did suddenly find myself in another little world or thread or string, and one which seems to be ending almost as soon as it began: `Not the God does not exist show,' or something like that...

In reply to an earlier post on 18 Nov 2010 11:03:28 GMT
Last edited by the author on 18 Nov 2010 11:04:56 GMT
Yeah I think mine only had 1 mill as well, Im in the UK so I think the Euro and US versions are the same? Still took ages to beat though! I was also really lucky in my game as I managed to accquire 2 zodiac spears! The chest where it spawns int he mine before you fight Zodiark actually spawned it for me! Couldn't believe it when I opened it.

Yeah 8 totally engrossed me when I played it years ago. Loved the main story, and also really loved the Rinoa Squall love side. In terms of being able to feel empathy for main characters, they certainly took the biscuit imho.

the problem I had with 13, despite it being very beautiful and well made (and it was very beautiful), is that it was far too linear, and involved way too much grinding against that bloody Ochu! (Have nightmares, lol). They seemed to take a lot of the RPG element out of it, everything was set up for you to do, and the explration element was almost entirely taken out. the story was very good though.

Off topic, sorry. but like you said, always good to meet another fan!

In reply to an earlier post on 18 Nov 2010 11:06:15 GMT
Last edited by the author on 18 Nov 2010 11:11:00 GMT
Yeah Paul there was quite a few set up in lieu of the main thread being closed. Think this may be the predominant one now.

But then again Paul, what would I know? I'm just "foolish and careless" apparently. Oh look! An aerosol can next to an open flame *goes to fool around*

In reply to an earlier post on 18 Nov 2010 11:30:47 GMT
Pendragon says:
Paul

You said "created by someone not only intelligent but also with free-will". Did you mean Isobel?

In reply to an earlier post on 18 Nov 2010 11:37:14 GMT
Pendragon

I did not have Isobel in mind when I wrote that. No more you. But I believe that you both fit the description.

Any answers to my last two questions to you?

In reply to an earlier post on 18 Nov 2010 11:42:15 GMT
Pendragon says:
Paul

The most relevant parts of my last two posts to you on this subject in the now closed thread said:

"For man to have any free will at all is not the world view of several atheists on this forum. ... It has been said on this forum (from an atheist perspective) that our brains (merely, I would add) provide us with an illusion of free will. If so, that's quite an illusion.

... with imposition of responsibility for choice and consequent action, and belief in the ability of man to fail in and to be contrite for failure in that responsibility, comes the necessity of some form of free will without exercise of which there cannot be responsibility.

... the existence or otherwise of free will is, to me, more a philosophical question than a religious one. I have also previously indicated my scepticism about the determinism/indeterminism issue, and about the claim that the standard argument against free will is not dependent upon the validity of determinism.

I do not mind admitting that before interacting with this thread, I had not given a great deal of thought to the "problem" (if that is the right word) of free will. One of the benefits I feel I have gained from the discussions here is the prompt to understand it better. But I am not convinced that a complex arrangement of matter as we find in man is incapable without more of independent thought. Why not? No missing component, no God, no determinism. You could say I am waiting for the next breakthrough!

Maybe, like me, they just find it [whether man has free will] difficult or perhaps unimportant.

As already indicated, I find the "only an illusion" explanation hard to swallow. It's a bit like God. Existence or not, there is no real middle ground."

As to your question "Do you want to be Number 6, Pendragon?". I am not volunteering. At the moment I am uncertain. Maybe that makes me 5 1/2.

In reply to an earlier post on 18 Nov 2010 11:43:44 GMT
Pendragon says:
Paul

Only joking. It was Isobel who started this thread. Answers above.

In reply to an earlier post on 18 Nov 2010 11:45:56 GMT
Pendragon says:
Darren

Your answer: "You seem like an interesting diverse bunch of people to engage with :-) "

I'd go along with that.

In reply to an earlier post on 18 Nov 2010 11:57:15 GMT
Last edited by the author on 18 Nov 2010 12:31:52 GMT
Fidel!

Don't be like that!

God loves you and so do I!

We are all foolish and careless at times, but that does not mean that we are always so.

However, I believe that the words of yours to which I was referring were indeed foolish and careless. They showed a serious lack of understanding of the Christian position.

On the topic you turned to in response to my words:

The Church obviously regrets the behaviour of many of Her members in every century since the time of Her Founder. But, it has to be pointed out that most of the persecutions, including torturings, brutality, killings in their scores of millions have been atheistic in origin over the last 100 years. This seems to have escaped you. But I do not therefore claim that such behaviour is therefore the typical atheist attitude.

Do you realise that there have been more so killed in the last 100 years, mostly under atheist regimes, than in the whole of previous human history?

In reply to an earlier post on 18 Nov 2010 12:00:24 GMT
Pendragon

Many thanks. I always enjoy your honesty.

You will be Number Six to me, even if you are too honest to admit it

In reply to an earlier post on 18 Nov 2010 12:07:53 GMT
Pendragon

I realise it was Isobel who started this second thread.
But it was not this thread to which I was referring.
See my response to Fidel's 'little question' above.
Anyway, unlike free-will, it's not important is it?

In reply to an earlier post on 18 Nov 2010 12:10:19 GMT
Last edited by the author on 18 Nov 2010 12:17:14 GMT
Paul =[

Unlinke organised religion, Atheists are not held by an official doctrine, uniting us in some transnational atheist league. we are all individuals with a common idea of the unlikely-hood that a spiritual realm exists at all. So your comment "But I do not therefore claim that such behaviour is therefore the typical atheist attitude" is inherently incorrect - There is no 'typical atheist attitude', although I acccept the sentiment.

Secondly, what does this mean?

"But, it has to be pointed out that most of the persecutions, including torturings, brutality, killings in their scores of millions have been atheistic in origin over the last 100 years"

Are you going to start saying 'Hitler!' or 'Stalin!' or even 'Mao!'? Yeah probably...Think this argument has been done to death. But i'll say that the worst regime in WWII was the Croatian Ustaöe...and guess what they were?

Also secularism and atheism are not in the same game, they're not even in the same same sport, they're two completely different things that describe two different concepts that have no basis within each other. :\

In reply to an earlier post on 18 Nov 2010 12:22:13 GMT
Fidel

To my:

"Two men want to cross the jungle. One chooses to take a guide who knows the jungle well. The other chooses to go it alone. The first crosses the jungle easily and smoothly. The second has a very rough time and is missing for weeks. Do you think the first man does not wish the second to come out well at the end of it all?"

You responded:

>>> Depends, is one a born again christian and the other a member of Al Qaeda? I'm fairly sure that they'd be placing traps in the forest hoping the otherone fell into them.

But that does not mean the Christian wants the Muslim to go to hell. That was the topic we were discussing.

A right-minded Christian will always pray that his friends and his enemies will end up in heaven.

By the way, the more you stay with the guide, the more truth and joy you will find. The more you go it alone the deeper water you get into.

I have seen so many previous atheists who tell of their `journey home.' Only the other night I was listening to a former world-champion in his own sport, who confessed that before he returned to Christ and His Church, although he had plenty of money and worldly comfort, he had a terrible feeling of emptiness and pointlessness. Now he is home he is full of peace and joy

In reply to an earlier post on 18 Nov 2010 12:26:15 GMT
Last edited by the author on 18 Nov 2010 12:30:05 GMT
Fidel

Yes I was thinking of Soviet Russia, Communist China, Pol Pot and all the rest. And their persecutions were greater than all the others in history.

You say:

>>> Think this argument has been done to death.

It's true. That's what's significantrand important.

I take your point about secular. I will remove that from the post.

The fact remains that a materialist athesit philosophy has been behind the greatest persecutions in human history, and we should all be aware of this, particularly when you criticise the attitude oif Christians.

In reply to an earlier post on 18 Nov 2010 12:30:22 GMT
Last edited by the author on 18 Nov 2010 12:42:10 GMT
"But that does not mean the Christian wants the Muslim to go to hell. That was the topic we were discussing."

So I suppose sending the Muslim to heaven quicker is ok then? :-S

Ok Paul I understand your point, but here is the thing. As god probably doesn't exist in my opinion, I feel no affinity for wanting to worhip it. Your example of the world champion is fair enough, for him of course. For me and many many people, I don't feel 'empty' inside without a faith, I actually feel really happy without one, and nothing but incontrovertible proof that a god or spiritual realm exist will make me change my mind.

you offended me in the previous thread when you hinted through your descriptions of morality that Atheists had no concept of morality. That's the kind of attitude that riles me you see because I'm extremely moral (in my opinion), I always help others that need it If I see it etc. Why should I waste my time on my knees to something which has no evidence to say its actually there at all? Again, I speak only for me, as I am an individual, and glad to be it.

EDIT (To the additional post).

Regading so-called 'atheist' regimes and persecution.

You can't call them 'atheist' regimes because 'atheism' is not a united international organisational structure. They themselves may have had no faith of any particular merit, but that doesn't mean you can call them a regime inherently built around 'atheism' can you? It's not like they were shouting "I'm going to kill them for atheism!" Whereas regimes that use religion as their central tennant of government all to often claim God is on their side when they roll in the troops.

Incidentally, Hitler was a Roman Catholic and never reneounced his faith. Indeed he actually played to the Vatican on a lot of issues, once again raising the Ustase which were very much an arm of the Catholic church in the Balkans and killed millions in some of the most brutal attrocities seen in WWII, and Stalin was an Orthodox Priest in training before he quit. I'm not very familiar with Chinese or Indo-Chinese politics. But the taliban were pretty nice folk to their citizens wheren't they? What about all the african states that refuse (on adoption of central Catholic tennants on contraception) to endorse the use of condoms within their given state? Sounds pretty fair to me, does it to you? Not to mention all the killing done there based on religious and tribal differences. Sounds completlely rational to me as well.

In reply to an earlier post on 18 Nov 2010 12:33:57 GMT
Last edited by the author on 18 Nov 2010 12:35:21 GMT
Who the heck are they?

EDIT: Never mind; reading the next few posts cleared it up. I've steered clear of the whole LOTR franchise altogether. Just not my cup of tea.

In reply to an earlier post on 18 Nov 2010 12:38:00 GMT
Last edited by the author on 18 Nov 2010 12:45:18 GMT
Stephanie, you're a LOTR atheist? Get off this forum heathen!
Discussion locked

Recent discussions in the religion discussion forum

  Discussion Replies Latest Post
Announcement
Important Announcement from Amazon
154 12 Aug 2015
The odds on a planet developing life put in perspective. 470 11 minutes ago
The Power of Prayer. 839 20 minutes ago
Considering how many people lost their lives in WW2. Will Britain ever be able to admit THEIR GUILT in starting another world war that nobodupy wanted. 3 1 hour ago
Considering Holocaust denial is a crime in Austria, should Britains denying that they started a meaningless WW2 be a crime in Britain. 1 2 hours ago
Thousands of tiny jihadists on their way to Britain. Does my bomb look big in this satchel. 2 3 hours ago
Ken Livingston is RIGHT and the British establishment have been trying to rewrite history since 1945. 452 3 hours ago
religion forum anti religion club 63 15 hours ago
When will Britain apologise for starting WW2. 2 16 hours ago
Churchill, Chamberlain and Halifax. British aristocratic stupidity started WW2. These are the war criminals and mass murderers that blundered into a world war that no one wanted. THE SHAME OF BRITAIN. 6 17 hours ago
How much money in compensation does Britain owe Europe and the world for starting WW2. 2 17 hours ago
A fair forum. 2764 20 hours ago

More Customer Discussions

Most active community forums
Most active product forums

Amazon forums
 

This discussion

Discussion in:  religion discussion forum
Participants:  201
Total posts:  10000
Initial post:  11 Sep 2010
Latest post:  5 Mar 2012

New! Receive e-mail when new posts are made.
Tracked by 13 customers

Search Customer Discussions