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Mandela, didn't he used to be a terrorist?


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Showing 1-25 of 31 posts in this discussion
Initial post: 10 Dec 2013 13:25:39 GMT
?

Posted on 10 Dec 2013 13:51:15 GMT
Roma says:
Hi Jack
As the cliche goes, one's man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. It's a difficult one, though, isn't it? If you are fighting for what is truly right - as he was - not just for power, territory, or wealth as so many do, what else can you do but resort to violence, having tried every other means possible. I vividly remember, when at school, I first became aware of the apartheid system in South Africa. I was totally shocked at this happening during my lifetime unlike the horrors of the holocaust which I thought had been assigned to history. I later felt disillusioned - correction, nothing MT did ever disillusioned me - when our Prime Minister refused to impose a trade embargo with SA. I do remember refusing to buy SA produce, but I don't think that would have had much of an impact.

He was a remarkable man, because when eventually he was listened to he relinquished violence. I walked through Nelson Mandela Square in Glasgow yesterday and was very pleased that the city had honoured him before he died. He was a hero, and as I often quote: "Unhappy the land that is in need of heroes." I did find it difficult to listen to our current PM praise him today and say how he had been an inspiration to him and other politicians in their fight for equality. Yes, they're doing everything in their power to create a fair and just society, aren't they?

In reply to an earlier post on 10 Dec 2013 13:54:49 GMT
Spin says:
Jack: Mandela is a DEAD terrorist. But he was a black man so we are forbidden to criticise him and the ANC for fear of disturbing the white secularist idiots celebrating his life...

In reply to an earlier post on 10 Dec 2013 14:09:54 GMT
Are you kidding me ?? Nelson Mandela square ... in Glasgow ... pahahah I think that is utterly pathetic and almost hypocritical considering the Protestant/Catholic tensions still there.

He's not a hero, he's a terrorist. He never renounced what he'd done, he didn't renounce violence, he didn't bring true equality, he never apologised for all the deaths of blacks and whites he signed off on. The MK planted bombs at schools, malls, train stations, bus stations etc nothing to celebrate or heroic there. Killing civilians is the mark of a coward.

"how he had been an inspiration to him and other politicians in their fight for equality. Yes, they're doing everything in their power to create a fair and just society, aren't they?"

Yep, they're bombing democracy onto undemocratic nations.

In reply to an earlier post on 10 Dec 2013 14:14:59 GMT
G. Heron says:
Spin

" Mandela is a DEAD terrorist."

I would have preferred if Mandela could have achieved freedom for the black majority through peaceful methods and so would he. However the black majority was denied the vote and peaceful protest was met with bullets so I don't see that he had any choice other than choosing between violence or slavery. What would you have chosen?

In reply to an earlier post on 10 Dec 2013 14:18:40 GMT
You are right Roma, especially in saying it is difficult.

His early methods were not acceptable or necessary, truly great progress has been made all the more significant for being achieved peacefully, as has been proved by the likes of Gandhi. Not that I totally condemn violence, because I don't, regrettably it is sometime the only option.

Should we forget his past crimes because he has since done good things? That's where I'm personally uncomfortable, because it seems, as we see all too often, it's all about who you know. There are too many examples of non-famous people who have been relentlessly pursued for far lesser crimes and regardless of how much they may have 'morally' redeemed themselves.

We have to ask how the families of the victims of his 'old life' feel about him being made a hero.

In reply to an earlier post on 10 Dec 2013 14:36:14 GMT
Passionately put.

In reply to an earlier post on 10 Dec 2013 14:38:45 GMT
Sorry about that ;)

In reply to an earlier post on 10 Dec 2013 14:42:42 GMT
Last edited by the author on 10 Dec 2013 14:44:31 GMT
Spin says:
G; I do not deny the truth of the equality of humanity, cultures and beliefs. I object only to the assumption that "blacks" are somehow more enlightened than we are...South Africans are violently opposing immigration of blacks from their neighbouring countries...I mean, come on...I call Mandela a terrorist, as he was, and am condemned. But its Ok for SA blacks to violently turn out immigrants...

Posted on 10 Dec 2013 14:45:56 GMT
Spin says:
Mandela approved, so it must be morally right for a black man to burn the property of another black man if he is an immigrant...

In reply to an earlier post on 10 Dec 2013 14:51:25 GMT
It's called ranting.

In reply to an earlier post on 10 Dec 2013 14:54:42 GMT
Roma says:
Hi Chief
Outside of Old Firm Games, I think that sectarianism has thankfully become quite irrelevant in Scotland. As throughout the rest of Great Britain, there is equality under the law for people of all religions and none. Change in attitudes obviously can't be legislated, and in South Africa there are still racial problems. However, thanks to Nelson Mandela, great improvements have been made. I am a firm supporter of democracy, but surely, even if one weren't, one couldn't support only one section of a society having the right to participate in the democratic process where it does exist.

I too abhor violence and believe that it should never become necessary. Surely the real culprits are those who denied black citizens legal rights in the country of the birth?

In reply to an earlier post on 10 Dec 2013 14:56:29 GMT
You'd never catch me ranting....

In reply to an earlier post on 10 Dec 2013 14:59:03 GMT
'Surely the real culprits are those who denied black citizens legal rights in the country of the(ir) birth?'

Good point.

In reply to an earlier post on 10 Dec 2013 15:02:43 GMT
Roma says:
Indeed, Jack

The same problem exists in NI where recently a truce for all involved in "the troubles" has been called for, included army personnel. It must be very, very difficult to forgive the killings, but, I do think it is the only way forward, painful as it is. If those who were part of the killing can make a significant contribution to the peace process, then, galling as it, they probably should be allowed to do so.

Chief makes the point about no apology being given for Mandela's terrorist activities. There is no point, though, saying, sorry, if given the same circumstances, you would do the same again.

In reply to an earlier post on 10 Dec 2013 15:03:28 GMT
Spin says:
Roma: You are correct. "Sectarianism" in Scotland is as much a myth as that of Rab C Nesbitt..=) But the English like labelling folk; it gives them a sense of "superiority"...=)

In reply to an earlier post on 10 Dec 2013 15:13:25 GMT
Bore off Gordon.

In reply to an earlier post on 10 Dec 2013 15:27:41 GMT
Nah. The English aren't the ones about to vote on independence.

In reply to an earlier post on 10 Dec 2013 15:31:51 GMT
Spin says:
Jack; Indeed. The English are the very reason why the vote is needed. =)

Posted on 10 Dec 2013 15:36:11 GMT
Silly debate....based on beliefs....totally subjective, nothing objective....waste of time...a terrorist to some, a freedom fighter to others....and nothing to the GOMS.

In reply to an earlier post on 10 Dec 2013 15:44:00 GMT
Spin says:
TNF; Indeed, you have nothing to believe in or fight for except yourself....

Posted on 10 Dec 2013 15:50:15 GMT
Apartheid was an aberration. A racist's paradise.
Any decent human being would have joined in against what can only be described as 'evil incarnate'.

In reply to an earlier post on 10 Dec 2013 15:55:08 GMT
"Any decent human being would have joined in"

Yeh cos I just love trying to blow up kids to make a point.

In reply to an earlier post on 10 Dec 2013 15:59:41 GMT
Yes....but which self....???....the amygdala, the pre frontal cortex...the basal ganglia...the right temporal lobe....???????????

Posted on 10 Dec 2013 16:00:27 GMT
Spin says:
Aparthied"; A word used by the English to distinguish their own sectarian and prejudicial view of Ireland from other immoral and unjustified views..."apartheid" concerns only blacks in Africa...Jolly good show, old bean...Pip, Pip..
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Discussion in:  politics discussion forum
Participants:  10
Total posts:  31
Initial post:  10 Dec 2013
Latest post:  10 Dec 2013

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