"The love that dare not speak it's name"..........THE EURO'S 2012

I am surprised that no-one has started a thread yet about the football. I assumed Simon would have, knowing his love of the glorious game? It has just about everything..., politics, financial elistism, blind nationalism, racism! The rise of the far right in Europe.

Is it time now, to finally speak it's name?

THE FINAL
GREECE 6 GERMANY 0

Not to mention sport.

You strike me, Molly dear, as one of those who only affects an interest in football when they have a chance to get up someone's nose, so I don't know whether I should rise to it. And does Simon love it? Maybe he follows the Martian league.

But (hey ho) I thought the Irish were a bit unlucky last night. Spain and Holland have both looked unimpressive; I think Spain, lacking a top striker now that Torres has lost his mojo, may be past their best. Just my luck, as I've got them in a sweepstake.

I'm not expecting a brilliant tournament and, so far, I've not been disappointed. Could the fact that England are, for once, not carrying a ridiculous burden of unrealistic expectation work in their favour?

Meanwhile the phantom of racism/neo nazism determinedly conjured up by the media has, irritatingly for them, failed to appear.

PS God, I hope not.

To say I'm interested in football (i.e. falsely), just to get up YOUR nose, is extremely unjust! Although, it is enjoyable to have that effect.

I've only seen the Italy v Spain match, and was indeed very surprised that Italy managed to even field a team, I thought they were all in prison. However, Torres, should be a great player, and was for a while, he should have scored twice at least. Thought Italy's defence was surprisingly very good, not forecast to be so.

I didn't see Ireland's match, but they are basically out now then? As regards England, you are right on one thing, they are defintely NOT carrying ANY burden of expectation at all. Apparently they've already booked their flights back immediately after their match with Ukraine.

What do you think of Greece then? Do they have a chance, would be good for the country and they certainly deserve some good news don't they, (I know how much you admire the country?).

"Could the fact that England are, for once, not carrying a ridiculous burden of unrealistic expectation work in their favour"

Haven't they already bought their return tickets home - that was in the news the other day lol

"Meanwhile the phantom of racism/neo nazism determinedly conjured up by the media has, irritatingly for them, failed to appear"

Apart from the investigation into racism towards one of Holland's black players...
I take it you didn't see the show the other day about the right-wing and racism in these two countries ? The footage is very clear on it, rows of fans doing the nazi salute and chanting sieg heil etc.

Hi gille

"the phantom of racism/neo nazism ... has, irritatingly for [the media], failed to appear"

In addition to what KK said, there was also the Russia game. Czech player Theo Gebre Selassie was subjected to racial abuse by Russia fans. Russia are now the subject of UEFA disciplinary proceedings for failure to control their supporters (more I think for the violence than the racist abuse, but no doubt both will feature).

Ukraine's first game tonight against Sweden will be a watershed on this.

Molly: Football; a breeding ground for racism, sexism, and materialism. And a sphere of life in which one can make money by such behaviour...

Hi.

Well, yes, okay; but that kind of thing could've happened at almost any tournament there's ever been. The media seemed to be gearing up for something a bit more 'rivers of blood'.

See, that's what I'm talking about. :)

I have a lot of admiration for Greece, past and present (though not necessarily the way it runs its financial affairs); but the idea that, because of that, I could desire their team of hod-carriers to mug their way to the title, as they did in 2004, is absolute anathema.

Torres, again, the fact he should've scored twice and didn't - that's what I'm saying. Four years ago he'd have scored those goals.

As for Ireland - since they still have Spain and Italy to play, they're up against it to say the least.

Listened to morning news show on RTE with one ear only, but got impression that general tone of extensive references to our loss was acceptance that that's the lot for us (except by Trappatoni [sp?]). That's marvellously refreshing to me: No complaints about bad luck, muddy pitch, villainous Croatians (or Shay Givens) on the one hand and nothing whatsoever of to the strain of 'we'll win the next two' (except from Giovanni T) on the other. Stereotypes of the Irish never allow for this level-headed perspective on things . . .

Yeah, I think it's been pretty stoic - considering they did have their fair share of respectable excuses available if wanted.

Realistically you'd have to say they'll be lucky now to come home with a point from anywhere. They did well even to qualify - it seems to be essentially the same squad as their last tournament in 2002, and I don't think any of the players have got better in that time.

Still - is it stereotyping, or is it just due acknowledgement, to say that few teams have fans who would sing their anthem (ie Fields of Athenry) so rousingly at the end of a game where their tournament hopes have virtually ended?

Meanwhile - England v France showed us two mediocre-looking teams. France, despite apparently reviving under Blanc, aren't what they were - and for a lot of the match England looked as static and rigid as a table-football team. Midfield creativity remains entirely absent, and they looked just as dependent on set pieces as Ireland were yesterday. England's toughest test in the group stage? Time will tell...

I think the test will be when Ukraine play France and then England, don't you think, especially now that these matches have become so important for them?

Not just football Spin, Europe has too much tradition and it seems, continues to breed extreme nationalism. Something the European Union back in 1957 was set up to attempt to address. Eastern Europe particularly has not really, even now after all these years since the fall of the Berlin Wall, become as fully cosmopolitan and tolerant as the rest of Europe. Football in fact has been one of the major reasons for making the world a more tolerant place, it's taken a long time, but it's a powerful platform to voice the virtues of such tolerance?

Gille, I take it all back, you've just disproved everything:
Greece - "their team of hod-carriers to mug their way to the title"!

Do you think they have an advantage or disadvantage in wearing a kit that makes them almost invisible on the pitch?

On the contrary - it proves that I judge purely on footballing factors, and not on irrelevant political prejudices or whether I want them to have a nice day. I always like the teams that play the best football to do well. The underdog thing is all very well, but usually what it means is teams being negative and parasitic; in the long run that's no good for anyone.

I certainly don't think Ukraine, on home soil, can be dismissed; and Sweden should be no pushovers either. If England are complacent they could easily come unstuck. As Andy Townsend has been saying, you wonder in particular how they can come back if they go behind in a game. They have almost no attacking firepower at all - that is, they've got decent strikers (especially once Rooney is back), but there's never any service from midfield.

I agree about England, far too laid back about the whole winning thing, they could have beaten France, and they don't need Rooney, they just need the will to win the tournament. The Manager keeps dreaming they've won it, every night apparently, well dream on, and on, and on England.

Don't need Rooney? Don't know. He's the only attacking player of real quality they've got, but they don't tend to make best use of him anyway. Nor do I think they were laid-back, just not very good.

From what I saw of the Greece game just now I realised I omitted a key word from their description: I should have called them *cheating* hod-carriers. I can't remember when I last saw such constant, shameless diving, not by one or two individuals, but by an entire team. Thankfully they're pretty much out now.

The Czechs were just as bad !! lol It seems to be the done thing in football nowadays, for the 'best' players of a country they still resort to cheating.
Couple of fitties in Russia and Polands teams - which is, of course, the most important thing about any sport ;)

On a side note, I was thinking earlier - who is paying the Greek team ?? Sounds a stupid question I know, but I thought the country in general was broke, let alone able to afford to pay a small fortune to 15 people. Same really for the Spanish team - who's paying them ?

'Just as bad'? Well, not quite...the Greeks really were a disgrace.

If we're talking 'fitties', I want to know why England seem to be the only country who don't have any glamorous ladies in the crowd for the TV director to home in on? Instead we just get shots of tubby middle-aged blokes in fake chainmail...

Why do England seem to be the only country who don't have any players who can pass the ball and keep the ball?

Reads like you watched the game wearing your special English rose tinted specs.

Dunno...seems both sexes are deficient.

This is a long-standing problem though, isn't it? As is the lack of midfield playmakers. What really depresses me is that the effect Hodgson seems to have had is to make them even more 'organised' - ie negative - when they were already one of the dreariest teams in the world. People will argue this is the way to make the best of a mediocre bunch of players; but if that's what it comes to, I say, let's just not bother.

Good game last night, Russia v Poland - livened things up a bit; plus a few riots which, fortunately, were not related to race or ideology, and therefore don't really count.

PS I think you may be misreading Molly - she's saying England were rubbish (which I think we all agree on); though she seems to think it's because they weren't trying hard enough, which I certainly don't agree on.

Did bring a smile to my face the P vs R game (in bad taste I may add) - have the match take place on Russia Day, in Poland and have a German referee lol

Perhaps Molly should be coaching the team: try harder, bomb forward and you will win boys.

Did it "bring a smile to your face" that both teams and the ref had a good game?