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will science ever replace religion?


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Showing 201-225 of 283 posts in this discussion
Posted on 25 Apr 2013 11:53:20 BDT
Lexi says:
LMW-- You put a lot of chasing posts there. Where you talking to anyone in particularly through out or everyone in general?

In reply to an earlier post on 25 Apr 2013 11:57:28 BDT
you and i have a different view of Cat Stevens. Have you heard Moon Shadow or Father and Son?

In reply to an earlier post on 25 Apr 2013 12:36:27 BDT
G. Heron says:
Two Hats

If you check out you tube you can see Cat Stevens in extreme Muslim mode saying he would be happy help get Salman Rushdie killed.

I agree "Morning has Broken" is a beautiful song but I can view it from the stunning beauty of the physics involved rather than from the god worshiping aspect.

In reply to an earlier post on 25 Apr 2013 12:58:33 BDT
[Deleted by Amazon on 9 Jul 2013 14:22:29 BDT]

In reply to an earlier post on 25 Apr 2013 13:07:18 BDT
[Deleted by Amazon on 9 Jul 2013 14:22:30 BDT]

In reply to an earlier post on 25 Apr 2013 13:07:18 BDT
G. Heron says:
Two Hats

"I like the concept of a God, or a greater intelligence, omnipotent, omnipresent entity whatever. But until I can understand, even in a basic way, what it might be and how it might exist, I'm struggling to believe. "

I can imagine a supreme being existing outside of time and space, a being of supreme intelligence and supreme power. Now I can imagine that but there are two problems

1. I have no evidence to say such a being exists.
2. Theists claim that such a being with such amazing abilities requires no explanation at all.

In reply to an earlier post on 25 Apr 2013 13:18:58 BDT
[Deleted by Amazon on 9 Jul 2013 14:22:31 BDT]

In reply to an earlier post on 25 Apr 2013 13:34:40 BDT
[Deleted by Amazon on 9 Jul 2013 14:22:33 BDT]

In reply to an earlier post on 25 Apr 2013 13:35:49 BDT
[Deleted by Amazon on 9 Jul 2013 14:22:34 BDT]

In reply to an earlier post on 25 Apr 2013 13:45:36 BDT
G. Heron says:
Two Hats

No doubt about it, the song is great.

Posted on 25 Apr 2013 13:53:02 BDT
Dan Fante says:
Cat Stevens didn't write Morning Has Broken, it's an earlier hymn. It's a good version though.

In reply to an earlier post on 25 Apr 2013 14:38:38 BDT
Last edited by the author on 25 Apr 2013 14:39:09 BDT
AJ Murray says:
-"I can imagine a supreme being existing outside of time and space, a being of supreme intelligence and supreme power. Now I can imagine that but there are two problems

1. I have no evidence to say such a being exists.
2. Theists claim that such a being with such amazing abilities requires no explanation at all."

there is also:

3. Being 'outside of time and space' means that there is no causal relationship for this being to inhabit, it becomes static and can do nothing, not even think.

In reply to an earlier post on 25 Apr 2013 15:07:10 BDT
Spin says:
G; St Anselms "reduction ad absurdum": ("Proslogion, ch2 & 3); "aliquid quo nihil maius cogitari possit". God is that than which no greater can be conceived. This is what the word "God" denotes; that than which there is no greater. If one can conceive of something greater then ones mind is not focussed on God. But suppose someone says that there is no God. That person understands what the word "God" means and this understanding of the word, its meaning and concept represented exists in that pewrsons intellect. If he did not know what the word "God" meant he would not be able to deny its non-existence. Now, since existing in reality is greater than merely existing in the intellect, God must exist in reality or He would not be a "God", a thing greater than all else. Therefore, since "God" is that than which no greater can be conceived (even in the mind of the atheist who denies Gods existence) and existing in reality is greater than existing only in the intellect, God must exist in reality. In short, if you think God does not exist, then your intellect has not grasped that than which no greater can be conceived. You are, in modern parlance, refuting the reality of a concept, not an existent being.

In reply to an earlier post on 25 Apr 2013 16:15:55 BDT
Last edited by the author on 25 Apr 2013 16:17:19 BDT
G. Heron says:
Spin,

Thanks, it is amazing the sort of hoops early theists went through to prove the existence of god in the absence of any tangible evidence. Its fun to try and spot where the tricks are slipped in.

It sort of reminds me of the old 'joke' that went round when I was a child. A child would come up to another one in the play ground and have the following conversation.

Child 1. I am not here and I can prove it.

Child 2. Of course you are here but go ahead and try and prove you are not.

Child 1. Am I in Paris?

Child 2. No.

Child 1. Am I in New York?

Child 2. No.

Child 1. Am I in Rome?

Child 2. No.

Child 1. Well if am not in Paris and I am not in New York and I am not in Rome then I must be somewhere else?

Child 2. Yes.

Child 1. And if I am somewhere else then I can't be here.

In reply to an earlier post on 25 Apr 2013 16:24:21 BDT
Spin says:
G; My personal refutation of Anselm concerns the fact that as children we have no conception of "deity"; the concept is introduced to us, so Anselms first premise, the claim that God exists in the intellect is, in itself, false.

In reply to an earlier post on 25 Apr 2013 16:32:43 BDT
G. Heron says:
Spin,

It is an interesting attempt to take a perfectly reasonable definition and then use the definition to try and bring the subject of the definition into existence. Apart from the internal logic failures that you have touched ion the fact that there are more than one of these sort of attempts gives the game away since you only need one that works.

In reply to an earlier post on 25 Apr 2013 16:38:02 BDT
Spin says:
G; In my "youth", when I heard this argument in a lecture, I raised the contrary argument to my tutor (a Christian) that Satan, that than which no greater "evil" can be conceived, must, according to Anselm, exist. Indeed, one can apply the argument to anything; the sexiest, the richest, the funniest etc..

In reply to an earlier post on 25 Apr 2013 17:17:47 BDT
Last edited by the author on 25 Apr 2013 17:21:14 BDT
Lessfatman says:
Cat Stevens wrote and sang a number of great songs, stuff that I listened to 40 years ago and still do. He is a Muslim. There are about 700 million Muslims in the world and he is one of them. He might have said some silly thing but to my knowledge he never stoned or bombed anybody let alone flew airplanes into high buildings.

What exactly is wrong with him being a Muslim?
Does being a Muslim somehow make you a bad person?
I fail to see how.

Remember the Americans piling up The Beatles records to be burned because John Lennon had said that wow, we are more popular than Jesus?

There are still people there with a grudge against him because of that.

Never underestimate the power of stupidity said the old Albert...

In reply to an earlier post on 25 Apr 2013 17:32:33 BDT
G. Heron says:
Fatman

There is nothing more wrong about being a Muslim than there is following any religion, however declaring that you would help kill someone for the 'crime' of writing a novel indicates a dangerous fanaticism

In reply to an earlier post on 25 Apr 2013 17:37:01 BDT
Last edited by the author on 25 Apr 2013 17:37:52 BDT
Lessfatman says:
We all say stupid things every now and then. Those in the media limelights get a lot more attention than they deserve.

I am all against the Fatwas against artists, musicians, writers and filmmakers.
I just wonder if Cat Stevens had read the book or if he had just been briefed by somebody he trusts very much.
Whatever, it was a dangerously stupid thing to say.

In reply to an earlier post on 25 Apr 2013 19:15:03 BDT
[Deleted by Amazon on 9 Jul 2013 14:22:40 BDT]

In reply to an earlier post on 25 Apr 2013 19:18:30 BDT
Spin says:
Two Baseballs: Trust me as a person who has suffered many years in oil-rich nations: Islam is a CORRUPT philosophy...

In reply to an earlier post on 25 Apr 2013 20:47:52 BDT
J A R P says:
IQ tests, non-verbal reasoning tests, and things of that type... As if I meant to equate high IQ with spiritual perfection! They were invented as a quick and easy way of deciding which of your conscripts could do what job in your total mobilisations of the C20th.

The ideal I am talking about is more like, say, Michaelangelo, or Tolstoy, or Beethoven, or Einstein - each of them close friends of God.

In reply to an earlier post on 25 Apr 2013 20:55:49 BDT
J A R P says:
I.N. The basis for the Big Bang theory is very shaky. Advocating it is in itself a sign of diminished responsibility toward yourself and others. Celestial bodies appear to be moving away from us, but only on the basis of dubious evidence of red and blue shift, unfortunately bad-maths sums about gravity, and the so called background radiation just above absolute zero. It's clutching at straws. Clutching at a way to make sense of the senseless, this Big Bang theory.

Western society came into its own and stated its inherent bent for 'atheism' with Descartes, who expressed his humanism in such a way that it was not frowned up by the Church.

He looked inside himself and found a voice: inside him there is only a voice, the Cogito. There is nothing else in there; he tended to see his body as a machine.

It perplexes me that, given what can be achieved with a disciplined introspection, this Father of the modern age could find only the Cogito ergo sum, and advanced mathematical reasoning. And nothing else.

--

This is entirely at odds with the spirituality of the East, where religious people derive an entirely other world by meditating on their own minds and actually silencing the Cogito into non-existence.

It is also at odds with the way I see it; honestly, if you don't have a soul, that's your business. If I can't prove to you that I have one, then you won't believe me. But you'd need to do more than provide me with bad maths, Cartesianism, and mechanical theories of human being if you want me to be 'atheist'.

In reply to an earlier post on 25 Apr 2013 21:06:19 BDT
J A R P says:
Bertrand Russell, an eminent atheist, was said by many of his friends to have been a damaged and empty man. DH Lawrence and Wittgenstein, for instance, were attracted to him for his intelligence, but bewildered by his total lack of any 'soul', any attachment to existence. He is an embarrassment, just like other high profile atheists.
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Discussion in:  politics discussion forum
Participants:  23
Total posts:  283
Initial post:  21 Apr 2013
Latest post:  14 Jul 2013

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