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Common Purpose


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Showing 76-100 of 122 posts in this discussion
In reply to an earlier post on 25 Mar 2013 23:27:20 GMT
TomC says:
"in pretty much every case, managers have to be able to articulate an organisation's policy, motive those who work for them and make the right operational decisions. All this requires leadership skills"

Oh dear. I was with you up to that point ...

http://search.dilbert.com/search?p=UK&srid=S3-USESD02&lbc=dilbert&ts=custom&pw=leadership&pu=5124&uid=534474045&isort=score&view=list&filter=type%3acomic&w=Explaining%20Leadership&rk=2

In reply to an earlier post on 25 Mar 2013 23:36:12 GMT
Helen says:
Me thinks thou dust protest too much.

Lets examine some matters that were once conspiracies- the sun revolved around the earth, Mitchell said 'pleb', Saville was not a child abuser, liverpool fans caused the hillesborough disaster, all fans died at 3pm, Iraq had weapons of mass distruction, the earth was flat , Findus lasagne did not contain any horsemeat.......beef burgers were safe to eat................

helen 2 as was last post

Posted on 26 Mar 2013 08:27:16 GMT
Pen Master says:
This link to a video on Youtube may provide some answers to those that are not 'on message'! http://youtu.be/rmMArP235Oc

In reply to an earlier post on 26 Mar 2013 12:45:21 GMT
David Groom says:
Tom C,

'Oh dear. I was with you up to that point ...'

What's difficult to understand about management and the objectives/policies of an organisation or company?

In reply to an earlier post on 26 Mar 2013 12:47:23 GMT
David Groom says:
Helen,

'Me thinks thou dust protest too much.'

Most of these weren't conspiracies in the CT sense of the word, so I don't see the relevance. But even if they were, how does the fact that a conspiracy exists in one area prove that it exists in an entirely different one without any evidence to back it up?

In reply to an earlier post on 26 Mar 2013 13:44:16 GMT
Last edited by the author on 26 Mar 2013 13:44:44 GMT
TomC says:
It's not about difficulty, it's about perspective. Managers see themselves in one way, while those who are "helped", "motivated" and "empowered" by them perceive them in quite a different way.

In reply to an earlier post on 26 Mar 2013 17:57:16 GMT
David Groom says:
Tom C,

'Managers see themselves in one way, while those who are "helped", "motivated" and "empowered" by them perceive them in quite a different way.'

I wouldn't argue with that, but no organisation can operate properly without being managed. That means it needs people who, as I say, can motivate those they manage and get the best out of them. It's also the case that any organisation determines its policies and somebody has to interpret and implement them - that's done by the managers. It certainly can't be done by the workforce. Overall, I'm not sure I understand what point you were making when you objected to my post.

In reply to an earlier post on 26 Mar 2013 18:08:41 GMT
Last edited by the author on 26 Mar 2013 21:19:28 GMT
David Groom says:
Helen,

'It is not the taking of a psychometric per se, that is the issue but the fact that someone, who had previously taken such a test and had failed to get a management position, and was then informed by a successful applicant, how they had to answer such a test to obtain a management position, and so on his next application he answered in this manner and was successful.'

Hardly surprising is it? Just like the 11+ or Mensa tests it's perfectly possible to train yourself for them, but this doesn't demonstrate anything.

'And the answers he gave would show a person with psychopathic tendancies.'

If you are claiming that the purpose of Psychometric tests is to identify psychopaths, I'd quite like a reference to the study that shows this.

'Ergo to be a good leader you have to be a psychopathic bully so people would have to follow you, no matter how much damage you were doing to your organisation or service users.'

That might be a valid conclusion if your claim abouit the purpose of the tests was the correct one. In my experience, the best managers are those who listen to their teams, take on board their suggestions and carry them along with them, even when some tough things have to be done. There may be a few managers who are bullies, but if they are they are unlikley to survive long as the results on which they are judged will suffer, and then so do they, with their jobs.

'I feel that you are deliberately misunderstanding and ridiculing my post by semantics.'

There's nothing in semantics about challenging somebody's warped view of the world - I don't recognise yours, so I raise comments about it. Where's the problem? That's the point of these forums isn't it?

'What this shows that good leaders/managers that are sought must be able to act like psychopaths.'

Sorry, but I'm going to describe this very simply as the rubbish that it is.

In reply to an earlier post on 26 Mar 2013 18:14:41 GMT
Roma says:
Hi David
My experience in the organisation in which i worked for many years was the opposite with highly motivated and enthusiastic staff and disinterested, unsuitably qualified managers who were conspicuous by their absence. Ordinary staff members had to hold their own meetings because managers couldn t be bothered. It was a non profit making organisation.

In reply to an earlier post on 26 Mar 2013 20:49:04 GMT
Garscadden says:
Have you researched the people who run those two websites?

Have you ever read Public Eye? How about The Daily Mail. Which one do you think is a paragon of virtue?

In reply to an earlier post on 26 Mar 2013 21:32:20 GMT
Helen says:
My post was perfectly clear. What it states is that if you want a management post you must answer a psychometric test to show the personality type of a psychopath.

In reply to an earlier post on 26 Mar 2013 21:34:48 GMT
Helen says:
Sadly a lot of good donations are wasted in chariies on unnecessary management as there is no accountability in the sector,

In reply to an earlier post on 26 Mar 2013 21:36:53 GMT
Helen says:
It should be dependent on the facts not the virtues, these are valued judgements made on the facts.

In reply to an earlier post on 26 Mar 2013 21:37:49 GMT
Last edited by the author on 26 Mar 2013 21:38:39 GMT
Garscadden says:
Your story sounds like it is from the book The Psychopath Test - the fact you didn't know that is interesting. Someone rehashing it to you, and telling you it happened to them?

In reply to an earlier post on 26 Mar 2013 21:39:29 GMT
Garscadden says:
Okay - let me rephrase:
Have you ever read Public Eye? How about The Daily Mail? Which one tells huge porkies?

In reply to an earlier post on 26 Mar 2013 21:39:49 GMT
David Groom says:
Helen,

'What it states is that if you want a management post you must answer a psychometric test to show the personality type of a psychopath.'

What I am asking is your source for claiming that managers who 'pass' a psychometric test are being tested to see if they are psychopaths.

In reply to an earlier post on 26 Mar 2013 22:08:28 GMT
Helen says:
It happened to a friend of mine. I relayed it to show that it appears institutions prefer to employ psychopathic personalities as managers an interesting and worrying fact.

I have read the book which confirms that such tendancies are displayed by managers .

In reply to an earlier post on 26 Mar 2013 22:10:04 GMT
Helen says:
My friend who got the job as mentioned in the post

Posted on 26 Mar 2013 22:40:50 GMT
Roma says:
Hi i think saying they prefer to employ psychopathic personalities is a bit extreme but i certainly believe that they wish to employ people who share some of the traits eg, ruthlessness, lack of remorse, inflated ego. An example springs to mind from my workplace which had a very union minded staff whom managed thought needed to be controlled. A promotion arose and two people applied. One was a lovely, highly qualified and experienced individual The other was a former army officer. The army officer got the job. One of his main responsibilities was to act as an internal assessor. He couldn t do this as it required at least three years experience and he none. He admitted to he didn t think he had any chance of getting the job. It was clear management wanted him to do a hatchet job. Thankfully, to management s disappointment he proved to be as union minded as the rest of us and appreciated the support we gave him to enable him to carry out his duties.

In reply to an earlier post on 26 Mar 2013 22:58:16 GMT
Last edited by the author on 26 Mar 2013 22:59:49 GMT
David Groom says:
Helen,

'My friend who got the job as mentioned in the post '

The experience of one person hardly qualifies as a body of evidence in favour of a proposition. Additionally, it would he helpful to know how your friend came to be appraised of the fact that the interviewers were looking for psychopaths and the tests were applied accordingly. In my experience interviewers rarely tell interviewees what they are looking for or how they have done in tests.

In reply to an earlier post on 26 Mar 2013 23:54:16 GMT
J. Forbes says:
So your friends are psychopaths?

Figures, I suppose.

In reply to an earlier post on 27 Mar 2013 10:44:29 GMT
Helen says:
This is the experience of one man who had taken many of these tests and answered honestly and then when he answered as apsychopath he got the job and was told by the person that told he to answer in that way that was how to get the job.

Clearly I cannot go out counting how many people have done this but it shows that at least several institutions employers are employing people with these tenancies.

In reply to an earlier post on 27 Mar 2013 10:54:11 GMT
David Groom says:
J. Forbes,

'So your friends are psychopaths?'

Birds of a feather, perhaps?

In reply to an earlier post on 27 Mar 2013 11:05:41 GMT
Helen says:
I can only conclude that my posts are worrying for those in Common Purpose as they are being unreasonably attacked.

In reply to an earlier post on 27 Mar 2013 12:11:53 GMT
J. Forbes says:
Your ability to reach rational conclusions would seem to be seriously limited.
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Discussion in:  politics discussion forum
Participants:  21
Total posts:  122
Initial post:  18 Nov 2012
Latest post:  1 Apr 2013

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