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Hollande wins! A new start for Europe!


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In reply to an earlier post on 8 May 2012 12:13:58 BDT
DrDR,

Do you have any suggestions?

A dictatorship?

Or howzabout Greece leaves the euro or stops using it domestically. They were not in this mess before they joined the Euro Project...nothing else changed.

Posted on 8 May 2012 12:26:21 BDT
David Rudd says:
Gordon: Greece leaving the euro must be a good idea - on Newsnight they have been announcing the inevitability of this for ages, so it must be the right (inevitable?) thing to do.

My suggestion: people could adopt a wholistic way of thinking and start to pull together - but it won't happen.

Dictatorship? A horrible idea - but I think it is what we'll come to; I've no idea when, though.

In reply to an earlier post on 8 May 2012 12:44:07 BDT
DrDR,

There's no magic bullet that will put the world to rights, cetainly not more government control. The mess in Europe was caused by government attempts to control and order. Getting rid of the Euro, not just for Greece but throughout Europe, will put a lot of things 'right' without the need for artificial constructs to get people pulling together.

The way to prevent dictatorships is more democracy...our political system is moving in the opposite direction.

Posted on 8 May 2012 13:24:01 BDT
David Rudd says:
'There's no magic bullet that will put the world to rights...' Perhaps not; but we could look to the word of the prophets, Fred and Ginger, and take our inspiration from them:

There may be trouble ahead,
But while there's music and moonlight,
And love and romance,
Let's face the music and dance.
Before the fiddlers have fled,
Before they ask us to pay the bill,
And while we still have that chance,
Let's face the music and dance.
Soon, we'll be without the moon,
Humming a different tune, and then,
There may be teardrops to shed,
So while there's music and moonlight,
And love and romance,
Let's face the music and dance.

In reply to an earlier post on 8 May 2012 14:08:47 BDT
"It's okay - my mate's paying....."

All eyes are on France, as the great juggernaut of fluffy-bunny socialism relentlessly grinds all before it. Will François Gérard Georges Hollande's presidency really be a new start for the European experiment? Or will he bring an already struggling French economy to its knees? A 75% top-rate tax has been proposed.

Tax and spend, tax and spend. Borrow and tax and spend and spend. It's like a childrens' song, where the wheels go round all day long, but nobody goes anywhere and all the adults in the vicinity go slowly mad and turn to drink.

But tax who? And what did those taxees do to so incur the red rage of socialist envy? What's that? They made money, so begger them until they give it all back? Is that really the plan, because it certainly sounds like it. Why not tax them at 120% to speed up the process? Rich bastards - that'll show `em - I'm sure a liberal-minded economist could explain how that would incentivise them to work twice as hard just to keep up.

Maybe, if I close my eyes, I too can see the new Utopia? How would this work? Let's start with a bankers `windfall tax'. It would be like me winning, say £100,000 on the lottery. (Totally free money being an essential plank of socialist fiscal policy) Okay, here goes... wish me luck! ( squeezes eyes tight shut.)

***Floaty-wobbly-flash-forward-scene... with harp***

Wow, £100k! There's the deposit I need for a house. I can borrow another £400k on that, easy, so now I'm a half-millionaire. I read somewhere that with a pension of £500,000 I could retire comfortably for the rest of my days. So there's plan A sorted.

Obviously, I'll need a new car; nothing too flash, but a nice little run-around. And I really want to visit Australia; as I'll be retired I could go for a couple or three months. While I'm at it, that sofa needs replacing and I could do with a bigger telly. I'll have loads of change from half a million.

In fact, why stop there? I have half-a-million in the bank now - as good as - so I can easily borrow another £500k to make me a proper millionaire. What's that you say? Pay tax on my interest earnings - take a hike, Mike. I'm retired now. Why can't you just leave me alone to enjoy my twilight years? And anyway, I read somewhere that, as a millionaire, I don't have to pay tax at all apparently, so I'm good to go...

***Harp. Floaty music. Back on terra-firma***

How is this happening? Are the voters just simpletons? I mean, the lying, cheating, muck-raking, anti-Semite, Ken Livingstone was only narrowly defeated in the mayoral election despite his sins being daily and loudly broadcast to all who bothered to listen. Or have they worked out that before long the whole world will be bankrupt, so sod it, let's grab what we can before it all goes tits-up? Because that's what it feels like - desperation. In the lock-up, surrounded by the Sweeney and with nowhere to run, the train robbers nevertheless carry on divvying up their haul.

Our only chance rests on these two hopes: First, that the whole EU edifice comes crumbling to an undignified end before they've had every last penny of our borrowed money, and secondly, that the voters really are simpletons - because if they are actually doing all this on purpose, sooner or later cold hard reality will hit home and they'll see the scorched earth at the bottom of the European money pit.

And then it's World War Three. Brace yourselves..............

In reply to an earlier post on 8 May 2012 18:58:30 BDT
Spin says:
DrDr: "I don't want to set the world on fire...I just want to burn the euro..." =)

Posted on 9 May 2012 11:09:35 BDT
If people's votes counted, then yes, Hollande's election should mean a big policy change, away from imposed 'austerity' (i.e. growth-destruction) towards growth.
But I doubt it will. Already he is backing away from his pre-election policy.
This, incidentally, might account for a good deal of public apathy - why vote for socialists who follow the same policy as conservatives?
68% of Greeks voted against 'austerity', but the markets are insisting that 'austerity' be obeyed.
There is no hope inside the euro!

Posted on 9 May 2012 12:14:49 BDT
Last edited by the author on 9 May 2012 12:15:36 BDT
David Rudd says:
If we don't have 'austerity', how can we get out of debt? The only other way is to invest; and to invest, if you don't have the funds in the first place, you have to borrow (leaving aside the complication of bonds - but we still get the same sort of outcomes). Borrow from whom? The financiers to whom we are indebted in the first place and so get into worse debt! Mind you, even with austerity, we're still borrowing big time.

Does anyone have the imagination for an alternative solution. At present, whether we go for austerity or investment, it all works to the benefit of rich power-elites.

Posted on 9 May 2012 12:50:32 BDT
Huck Flynn says:
let them eat cake !

In reply to an earlier post on 10 May 2012 09:54:52 BDT
I wouldn't start from here...
As the old joke goes, O'Reilly, when asked for directions would reply, "Now, Oi wouldn't be after startin' from here..." Cue much hilarity.

I have to wonder if France's new president, Francois Hollande's real name isn't perhaps Frankie O'Lande given his perplexing grasp of the nature of money. It's like Socialist Economics 101.

He wants to raise super-taxes on the creators of wealth, then splurge it on the feckless. He says he is 'anti-austerity' and 'pro-growth' which are meaningless and contradictory phrases, especially in the face of the catastrophic market reaction to the news of his election. He wants to levy financial transaction taxes but simultaneously and "openly describes himself as an 'enemy of finance', [and] said he would make his antipathy towards the City of London clear."

So, in other words he's going to declare open war on the people who dare to bring that horrible prosperity stuff, then expect them to stand still while he extorts it back from them. Without turning France into a barbed-wire fenced open prison I fail to see how that's going to happen. (Every WWII movie set in France seems to have at least one scene where border guards demand "Papers!" in a German accent)

Frankie's grand plan then, if I'm reading this right, is to drive out the people who make the money yet somehow take the money they won't be there to make and redistribute it to 'the poor' (along with some cake, presumably) who will then spend it on... well, what, exactly? Who will be left with the capital, resources and skills, the vision, drive and cash-flow to make and distribute the stuff his newly purchased electorate will want to buy? Who will pay for the enlarged state machine, which will be the only employer left in town?

So wouldn't you want to be a fly on the wall as this Gallic charmer meets David Cameron intent on telling him what a scumbag he is, what scumbags the British are, what Euro-taxes he is intent on pursuing to bring about the demise of the City of London and then, in the same breath, demanding that we in Britain turn out our pockets still deeper to shore up the fatally crippled and universally hated Eurocracy.

f I was David Cameron I would have to ask him, "Jaysus, are youse absolutely sure you want to be startin' from here?"

PS: Can you show me the way to World War Three?

In reply to an earlier post on 10 May 2012 12:30:58 BDT
We could fund investment by getting the Bank of England to lend to the Treasury at its official base rate. This would break EU laws, which require these loans to be routed solely through commercial banks, via `Quantitative Easing', which profits these banks while not delivering any benefits to the rest of us.
So if the Bank printed money, we could invest what we wanted, without getting into worse debt.
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Discussion in:  politics discussion forum
Participants:  11
Total posts:  61
Initial post:  6 May 2012
Latest post:  10 May 2012

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