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Why is cannabis illegal?


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Posted on 22 Jun 2012 19:21:01 BDT
sally tarbox says:
It also causes IRREPARABLE harm to the unborn child. My nephew (whose mother smoked weed) is a bright enough lad but has dyspraxia and other issues which a specialist linked to cannabis ingestion in the womb.
Sure alcohol and nicotine also cause harm; maybe all should be illegal for expectant mothers.

In reply to an earlier post on 23 Jun 2012 15:35:03 BDT
Joe. C says:
Thanks Tom C,
Firstly for deciding i'm a liar, basically jumping to some daft conclusion when you really don't know me.
Just had a brief flick through your research, and as a scientist i'm not impressed at all.

Car simulators are not an accurate test, I've been in one it feels more like a game.

Blood samples aren't an accurate study for cannabis, cannabinoids remain in your blood long after it is taken, weeks in fact, and for frequent smokers it also remains in high quantity's.

"Results were taken through blood samples or direct self-report.
Results show that if cannabis is consumed before driving a motor vehicle, the risk of collision is nearly doubled. Previous results have also found that there is also a substantially higher chance of collision if the driver is aged 35 or younger."
I would say this is the best one you have chosen, but it still uses blood samples, and relies on crashes that have already taken place rather than actually testing somebody stoned driving.

But to be fair you are right this is a separate argument, and what these studies don't take into account is the users tolerance to the substance, for instance if somebody has very little tolerance e.g a first time smoker, then i agree with you. So i do appreciate it is a difficult thing to regulate.
I could only give you poor underfunded studies showing the opposite coming from a bias party, so it's a bit discrediting really.
But like the study of cannabis itself, this is not science, it's politics. When a fair study takes place I will hold my hands up, if the results aren't to my liking. I would in fact love to take part in said studies.

Posted on 23 Jun 2012 15:43:35 BDT
Driving is a useless way to get at drug users and alcoholics.
I can safely say, smoking 5 joints and then driving a car - I would still be more in control of the car than my 85 year old grandmother.
Me drinking one can of lager would have a serious impact on my driving as I don't drink. If an alchy has a can then drives, chances are it won't make a noticeable difference. This kind of thing ALWAYS depends on the individual and never 'as a whole'.

In reply to an earlier post on 23 Jun 2012 18:25:58 BDT
[Deleted by the author on 23 Jun 2012 18:28:52 BDT]

Posted on 23 Jun 2012 18:31:13 BDT
??

In reply to an earlier post on 23 Jun 2012 18:42:24 BDT
Last edited by the author on 23 Jun 2012 18:44:10 BDT
Joe. C says:
Sally,
May i ask were you work? If you work at a drug rehabilitation clinic for example then your only going to see the worst cases of any drug use.
And for booze it may only be a Friday/Saturday night thing for some but those two nights cost the tax payer millions in policing and medical care on vandalism, injuries/violence, deaths, then back to work on monday... yeah great. The same can not be said for cannabis. The only criminal activities that come with it are due to it being criminalized.

"Whereas these poor saps wander round with a gormless look on their face, no use to society, unemployed and unemployable."
Non sense, you are creating a stereotype that doesn't exist. I have a large group of friends, that are full time pot heads and only one is unemployed and that is for other reasons. The vast majority of the stoners I have met, have been in full time employment, and many with respectable jobs.

In reply to an earlier post on 23 Jun 2012 19:03:33 BDT
Joe. C says:
Popcorn,
Good point, there is a small comparison with alcohol, in terms of regulating usage for drivers. Although with cannabis, If your too stoned to drive, your not likely to take feel indestructible and take a spin into somebody's front garden, your more likely to, think i can't be bothered i'll leave it. But if you do fight through it and manage to drive you are more likely to drive cautiously unlike alcohol, that for some gives a 10 men complex, which is a lethal combination behind the wheel.

In reply to an earlier post on 23 Jun 2012 19:49:07 BDT
"Sure people can get out of their head on booze but for most, unless they're alcoholics, it's a Friday night thing, have a hangover and back to normal (and work) on Monday.
Whereas these poor saps wander round with a gormless look on their face, no use to society, unemployed and unemployable." - Those unemployable types you mention I have come accross, you are right, they are out there and they do smoke weed, but they also drink, sniff glue, sniff gas, take speed, take coke, inject smack, smoke crack, steal and use morphine and get prescribed methadone, further to this, if you had a paracetamol and told them it would get them high, they would bite your arm off - You are describing junkies, not potheads.

Me and my mate used to do industrial cleaning and often drove up and down the country job to job. We worked with 2 youngish women (late 20's early 30's). They were self-confessed pi55 heads, not through the week, just weekends (they would live for the weekend and NEVER do overtime when asked if it fell on a sat or sun). Me and my mate, being young and daft smoked weed at work, whilst driving job to job and then more when we got home. Guess who got sacked for coming to work on a monday morning stinking of drink and telling a site manager she couldnt be bothered 'cus she was still mortal' (mortal=geordie word for drunk), and then guess which two people got 'asked back' to that particular job because of the hard work they put in...

Smoking weed, drinking alcohol etc they all effect us in different ways and at different levels depending on a million factors, but usually, and as a ***generalised statement*** and from my experiences in life, alcohol is far worse than cannabis for both your mental and physical health.
My example. My GF's mum (1 year sober last week WELL DONE!!!) started rehabilitation in a class of 27, out of which 6 remain (4 have died after relapsing)
In my short time on this planet, I've seen drink tear 2 families apart, kill my uncle and fuel fights first hand.
To date, I have seen cannabis BLAMED for murder and blamed also for the death off a young girl who was hit by a driver under the influence but niether were proved and the murder one was just ridiculous, I drink coffee, if I kill a co-worker after a coffee, no-one blames coffee for my actions, why should it be different for weed. Weed it seems is a favourite scapegoat for many, cant blame anything else, blame weed. And the driving one where the young girl was killed. 1 occassion, how many drunk drivers have killed others and/or themselves??? Why no press coverage for these??? Makes me sick this crappy country with its crappy laws and crappy double standards. My dealer has got a BMW X5 and plans to buy an X6 soon, never worked a day in his life, he doesn't want it to be legal cus he'd be out of work but morons like yourself allow him to keep making a fortune for himself 'because drugs are bad and should be illegal' and you all claim we have freedom of speech in this country HA! I'll keep smoking weed and keep on smiling smugly at pi55heads who call me a druggie as they throw up, waiting for the taxi home at 3 in the morning realising they've lost all their valueables because they are too wasted to notice them gone ha ha ha. Joe, I know where I'd rather be on a Friday night, discovery channel, few close mates, loads of nice takeaway food and an xbox.... ahhh bliss!!! (for the record, I've been in full time employment since the age of 16, smoked weed since I was 12 ;-), not saying its the same for everyone, but it sure as hell didn't turn me into a dolewadder!!!)

Posted on 23 Jun 2012 21:23:29 BDT
monica says:
I'm not a great believer in blanket prohibition of drugs. That was reinforced by a short film I saw today that I very strongly recommend to people who receive France 24 on telly (and perhaps it's available on net), where it will probably be shown again: The film was made by Romeo Langlois whilst he was with (Colombian) gov't troops in the coca fields, and just before he was kidnapped--the soldiers were assorted young men of obvious bravery & patience and were, you realised as a drug lord's heavies moved in on them, in way over the heads. Compelling, harrowing--I was left welling over a bit and wondering why such lengths are gone to just to (try to) thwart people who want coke and must support criminals to get it . . .

Posted on 27 Jun 2012 16:19:15 BDT
Charlieost says:
"Driving on acid is easy, driving on acid's a breeze, just keep our car on the freeway, don't laugh and don't fart and don't sneeze." The great Loudon Wainright, The Acid Song.

Driving on E is interesting with some really good sounds on the CD player.

I think there are far more accidents due to prescription drugs than illegal ones. Don't have any figures though.

In reply to an earlier post on 27 Jun 2012 16:41:56 BDT
You here about that tranquiliser report by UN charlie?
Apparently. the use of perscription drugs within middle age women has rocketed.
A woman is more likely to become addicted to tranquilisers than cannabis or other illegal drugs.

In reply to an earlier post on 27 Jun 2012 17:12:34 BDT
richard says:
Driving on acid is easy.......................just don't forget your fly swatter! Fear and Loathing .........

Posted on 27 Jun 2012 17:24:46 BDT
Joe. C says:
lol This is bat country!

In reply to an earlier post on 27 Jun 2012 17:27:31 BDT
richard says:
Joe,

better make it a tennis racquet then!

In reply to an earlier post on 27 Jun 2012 17:34:07 BDT
Charlieost says:
Hi PP. Yes, the pharmacutical industry does not bring out pills to cure people but to keep people dependent and buying their products. But sure we all know that. Biggest drug dealers in the world are on the high street. They call themselves Chemists.

In reply to an earlier post on 27 Jun 2012 17:50:43 BDT
And cannabis is known for mild pain relief.... hmmm threat to pharmacutical industry profits??

In reply to an earlier post on 27 Jun 2012 20:20:06 BDT
Spin says:
William: As I have stated on numerous occasions on this thread I did take a lot of drugs in my youth, such was my youthful fancy and attitude. I know how dangewrous cannibas is because only for my friends and family I would have become addicted. Constant use of cannibas diminishes its "mind-altering" (for want of better phrase) effect, but the addiction remains. I therefore speak from my experience as a disabled person, and the experiences I have witnessed in others,, not from some unfounded moral principle based on religion or science.

Posted on 27 Jun 2012 20:31:00 BDT
Spin says:
The legalisatin of any drug results in, first, the individual not caring about the health of his/her mind and body and, secondly, society not caring about the health of an individuals mind and body. Euthanasia is illegal is it not? Why? Because a instant death by consent is more abhorrent than a slow death by consent? A slower death means the alcohol, cigarette and oil companies can make a bit of profit from you before you die. Legalise marijuana or any drug, and all you do is sell your life. The only thing you truly own and truly have command of is your mind; why corrupt it with drugs of any kind only to fill the pockets of those who care not a jot for you?

In reply to an earlier post on 27 Jun 2012 22:44:52 BDT
Charlieost says:
As for the following post. You asked a question and I have a reply. Why corrupt your mind with drugs of any kind? Precisely for the reason you mentioned in the preceeding line. Because it is yours to command and the thing that you truly own (debatable but perhaps not time to go into that now, I'm just using your words) so you should have the right and the choice (as you choose not to). I choose not to now but at one time I necked, snorted or smoked anything that was going as long as I was in a safe environment to do so. My choice.

Posted on 27 Jun 2012 22:47:13 BDT
Charlieost says:
First post did not post. Life is to short and the weather to good. Happy days.

Posted on 28 Jun 2012 12:27:57 BDT
sally tarbox says:
Joe C- no I don't work in a rehab centre but in an 'open all hours' store; I've been there ages and our regulars are forever in buying large rizlas, dealing outside, unable to have a rational or deep conversation...
But you know even if you are able to sustain a job while 'using', doesn't it feel like an awful waste of life when you're in your prime, to be 'out of it' when you could be doing something interesting. What does your lifestyle give you that mine lacks??

In reply to an earlier post on 28 Jun 2012 12:31:38 BDT
"What does your lifestyle give you that mine lacks??" - Nothing, we are creatures of choice, yours is to jump on pedestals, condeming those you percieve to be 'underneathe' you, I choose to treat others as equals, and not judge them on their habits.

In reply to an earlier post on 28 Jun 2012 13:57:31 BDT
Spin says:
Chalieost: Those who claim it is "thier chocE" are always those who run to society for help when they realise thier mistake. Does society have a choice as to whether it should help[ them or not? Personal choice has wider consequences than smply those affecting the self. When you choose to take drugs you are also choosing to ignore the dangers and consequences. So how is choosing to ignore the consequences not a corruption of reasoning? How is choosing to harm ones mind being in control of ones mind?

In reply to an earlier post on 28 Jun 2012 21:57:16 BDT
Charlieost says:
Hi Spin. We have very differing views of the world and I find that refreshing. Taking your first point first, I believe that society has a responsibility to those who fall by the wayside as it is because of that society that such things occur. We are all part of society and have the responsibility to look after those who are its victims as well as its heroes.

I suppose for the second of your points I would go back to the free choice arguement. My mind, my choice to mess it up if I wish to. I would point out again that I have had some great times on drugs, enhancing sex, conversation and parties, even the odd bit of sabbing.

Not everyone ends up messed up Spin.

In reply to an earlier post on 29 Jun 2012 14:11:51 BDT
Last edited by the author on 29 Jun 2012 14:16:43 BDT
Spin says:
Charliost. WE may warn our kids not to toush a flame but they can only experience the danger by touching it. But when that child becomes an adult and chooses to touch the flame, knowing the danger, and despite repeated warnings, that person has not "fallen by the wayside". That person is responsible for his own behaviour. Now, of course, there are cases where mental problems, abuse etc lead to an abandoning of self-care, and these people do need help. But in the case of legalising a drug simply because some people enjoy the high, and then have us pay for the consequences of thier pleasure seems quite wrong. Lastly, I too had some great times on drugs, but the downside outweighs the upside. To legalise a drug which poisons ones mind and body for the sake of pleasure and then spend billions on medical care, simply because a minority enjoy getting high, is ridiculous. If, as you say, society is responsible for looking after people then it cannot legalise drugs. Indeed, to do so while it is attempting to reduce alcohol consumption, cigarette smoking and obesity, would be contradictory.
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Discussion in:  politics discussion forum
Participants:  84
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Initial post:  24 Apr 2012
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