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The Puppeteers, the Puppets and a jolly good show.


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Showing 26-50 of 88 posts in this discussion
Posted on 15 Jul 2012 08:53:33 BDT
Molly Brown says:
There are no conspiracies then Ryan? So what are we witnessing at the moment, corruption throughout the economies of the world, Leveson, etc. etc., are merely the imaginings of a few deeply paranoid, naive and gulible people then. Libor was not a conspiracy? Enron was not a conspiracy? Oil fracking is not a conspiracy? Just trashy rubbish, people do not get together to conspire to hide things they would rather not other people be made aware of. Everything in the world is totally legal and moral and above board then, is that what you are saying?

In reply to an earlier post on 15 Jul 2012 10:45:16 BDT
Mr B Tonks says:
Molly I'm interested to know why you think Oil fracking is a conspiracy?
There is a fair amount of exploration going on at the moment in Lancashire as there is reckoned to be substantial amounts of gas that can be fracked.
It is something I am intending to read up on when I get the time as it is causing a lot of controversay here as a couple of minor earth tremors in the area were blamed on exploratory fracking.

In reply to an earlier post on 15 Jul 2012 10:51:47 BDT
Last edited by the author on 15 Jul 2012 10:52:47 BDT
Molly Brown says:
Try catching Russia Today sometime, they show a documentary about the problems caused by this technology, strangely enough, developed by Dick Cheney's Haliburton Group. The water becomes undrinkable, you can set light to it. It kills wildlife, and long term, people too, it causes geological instability, hence the "minor" earthquakes your area has experienced. They tell people it's safe, as long as proper procedures are followed. HA HA!
The Oil companies do not care about the possible long term consquences, as they will do and go anywhere for more OIL!!!

If I were you I would find out more if you can, as to exactly where these companies are setting up, as it seems this government doesn't seem to want to regulate anything, not really. They make a pretence of doing so, but do you really think David Cameron would let them frack with him in leafy Oxfordshire?

In reply to an earlier post on 15 Jul 2012 19:53:18 BDT
Last edited by the author on 15 Jul 2012 19:56:16 BDT
gille liath says:
But how is any of that an conspiracy? You really need to turn that thing off once in a while, it's rotting your brain...

I suppose there are conspiracies, on the limited level that people do naughty things and try to cover them up; but not to the extent that they explain anything and everything that appears at all unusual or peculiar. Far more prevalent, I think, are straightforward stupidity, greed and lack of foresight. And those are the best terms to describe someone who is in favour of fracking.

PS I wonder why Russia Today could possibly be trying to make Westerners oppose fracking? Hmm, let me think about that one...

In reply to an earlier post on 15 Jul 2012 21:34:03 BDT
Spin says:
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In reply to an earlier post on 16 Jul 2012 07:35:45 BDT
TomC says:
Authoritative words from an economic illiterate, who didn't know and refused to understand the distinction between the National Debt and consumer debt.

In reply to an earlier post on 16 Jul 2012 08:50:51 BDT
Last edited by the author on 16 Jul 2012 08:52:34 BDT
Molly Brown says:
You need to stop watching the British mainstream news, as that is eroding your ability or willingness to see a truer picture of the world gille.

Why are RT showing a documentary about fracking in the mid west of the United States, well it's a US film I believe, not made by RT. But they do like to constantly promote just how corrupt America is, getting their own back I suppose for all the decades of negative brainwashing by the right wing in America against socialism. And I'm NOT saying there has or is now any proper socialism in Russia. I'd watch other channels if there were any, I can watch Sky and BBC News for about half an hour, just to see if anything in the world has actually happened since yesterday, usually it appears that everything is pretty much okay. Now I know that can't be true, surely?

In reply to an earlier post on 16 Jul 2012 11:18:50 BDT
gille liath says:
"But they do like to constantly promote just how corrupt America is"

Yes...

"getting their own back I suppose"

Slight lack of imagination there. It's not the past they're bothered about, they're there to serve Russia's strategic interests right now. In this case - just maybe - encouraging and increasing the West's dependence on imports of gas, of which Russia has huge reserves...?

Just a thought. As I've said before, the difference between the British media and RT is the difference between an assumed, unconscious domestic agenda and deliberate propaganda intended to subvert other countries; you might as well listen to Lord Haw-Haw. If you can't see that, they can chalk up another gullible victim...

In reply to an earlier post on 16 Jul 2012 13:43:48 BDT
Mr B Tonks says:
The BBC World service isn't much different to RT though in terms of propaganda, and as for Sky - wont even go there!
I watch RT occasionally just to get a different slant on issues even though I know it is Russian self promotion,
Makes a change from all the sickly sweet stuff we are served up by the likes of the BBC!

In reply to an earlier post on 16 Jul 2012 19:33:21 BDT
gille liath says:
Yeah, I don't see any harm in watching it for a bit of balance; but if you find yourself believing it more readily than the mainstream, you've got problems. Molly is obviously alive to the bias of the British media, but seems oblivious to the much more deliberate and overt bias on RT. Perhaps it's because it coincides with her own?

In this case (and many others) you have to ask yourself: why is a news channel based in Russia, with a supposedly global perspective, banging on and on about this comparatively trivial US consumer story? Because that's the way they're treating it - they don't criticise fracking from an environmental angle, as would be the logical approach.

In reply to an earlier post on 17 Jul 2012 06:01:44 BDT
Molly Brown says:
"If you can't see that, they can chalk up another gullible victim..."?

I would say that the British and American media are the Lord Haw-Haw's of this world, and people are beginning to see now just how much propaganda is being fed to them on a daily basis. I take RT with a pinch of salt, you are being pretty patronising to assume I don't. It does however, have some intelligent discussions, from both sides, rather than 30 second sound bites on Sky or BBC. The british newspapers, if you can call most of them newspapers at all, just push their proprietors agenda's and always have. People are hungry for some proper analysis and explanations of what is actually going on, and British media does not offer that in any way at all.

Posted on 17 Jul 2012 09:47:38 BDT
John says:
Reading the posts here, this one really had me thing about how much we are manipulated and how naive we would be to think otherwise http://stephanjmyers.blogspot.co.uk/2012/07/bob-diamond-puppet-masters-pawns.html

In reply to an earlier post on 17 Jul 2012 09:54:59 BDT
gille liath says:
It did?

Etc...

In reply to an earlier post on 17 Jul 2012 10:00:45 BDT
Last edited by the author on 17 Jul 2012 12:17:25 BDT
gille liath says:
"I take RT with a pinch of salt"

Well - you always cite them with approval, unlike the British news.

"you are being pretty patronising to assume I don't"

Sorry you feel that way; but actually I'm not, because you believe that:

"the British and American media are the Lord Haw-Haw's of this world"

No they're not, and I'm afraid that is a paranoid and irrational statement. They're simply channels which reflect the beliefs and norms of their home audience* - unlilke RT, which is expressly propaganda for foreign consumption. That's not to say that it's all untrue; I daresay some of what Lord Haw Haw said was true too. After all, they say that's the best way to give credence to a lie.

"People are hungry for some proper analysis and explanations of what is actually going on"

Well, they're not going to get it from RT. The danger is that people believe it - as you do - because it tells them what they want to hear.

We've reached that 'never the twain shall meet' point, eh? We're never going to agree on this - and I think it's why we have different ideas of what constitutes good discussion on this forum.

* I'm talking about the Brits - I don't know about the Yanks.

In reply to an earlier post on 17 Jul 2012 11:02:22 BDT
A. Little says:
http://www.cuadrillaresources.com/

"couple of minor earth tremors in the area were blamed on exploratory fracking"; out of interest, by whom?

In reply to an earlier post on 17 Jul 2012 11:06:36 BDT
A. Little says:
Erm, Halliburton took out the original patent in 1949 - when Dick Cheney was about 8 years old.

"The water becomes undrinkable, you can set light to it. It kills wildlife, and long term, people too, it causes geological instability, hence the "minor" earthquakes your area has experienced." This comes under the general heading of uninformed hysterical nonsense.

Are you prepared to do without oil and gas?

In reply to an earlier post on 17 Jul 2012 12:12:05 BDT
Mr B Tonks says:
Wouldn't happen to be your blogspot by any chance would it?
P

In reply to an earlier post on 17 Jul 2012 12:16:20 BDT
gille liath says:
By local residents - but I think it was accepted by the govt and the company concerned that fracking 'may have' been responsible. I have to say, I live not too far away, and I'm not terribly happy about it.

As for 'hysterical nonsense' - the fact is that this is an unknown technology which certainly *could* cause these types of effect. And if it does, problems caused in the UK are likely to be far worse than in the US, because of the higher population density.

In reply to an earlier post on 17 Jul 2012 12:23:42 BDT
Mr B Tonks says:
I think anyone who watches the BBC or Sky for their main visual source of information has got problems,
Of course the BBC world service with its global perspective hasn't got an agenda either!
You made a good point about criticising fracking from an environmental angle though as it would register more with Western consumers rather than concentrating on the profit making side.
Saying that from what I've seen in Russia there is barely a flicker of interest on environmental concerns - especially if it is going to cost somebody money!

In reply to an earlier post on 17 Jul 2012 12:28:11 BDT
Pipkin says:
RSS..Fracking triggered British earthquakes
By Mark Halper | November 2, 2011

Drilling for shale gas almost certainly set off two small earthquakes in northern England last spring, the energy company behind the project has admitted.
CUADRILLA RESOURCES said in a report that it is "highly probable" that its exploratory fracking project near Liverpool set off the April 1 quake that measured 2.3 on the Richter scale, and the 1.4 magnitude earthquake on May 27, the BBC reports.
The ''independent experts who CUADRILLA commissioned'' to investigate also concluded that an "unusual combination of geology at the well site" helped trigger the quake. Those conditions are "unlikely to occur again" but if they did repeat, an earthquake would not exceed a magnitude 3 on the Richter scale, the report claimed.

Hydraulic fracturing of shale gas, also known as fracking, involves pumping water and chemicals into shale rock to release natural gas. It could provide Britain with a lower carbon fossil fuel alternative to coal.
The controversial technique is in the early stags in the UK. Cuadrilla has found huge reserves in north west England, and has been drilling near Southport, about 17 miles north of Liverpool.
Opponents in Britain, as they do in the U.S., claim that fracking can pollute drinking water with carcinogens.
Now they are adding earthquakes to their list of objections. Some people have suspected that fracking triggered an earthquake in the eastern U.S. last August.
Anti-fracking protestors halted operations at Southport this morning by climbing a rig.

In reply to an earlier post on 17 Jul 2012 12:37:16 BDT
Mr B Tonks says:
I've been watching RT off and on but not come across the fracking story yet.
Looked it up on the internet and from what I can see the American fracking was totally unregulated, whereas here there seems to be more transparency on what is being undertaken.
Apparently if there is even a very minor earthquake in the area of less than 1 on the Richter they have to stop drilling straightaway.
One article I noticed in the Lancashire Post was that the Anti Fracking group were mainly retirees whereas the paper noted many people in the area who were cautiously welcome of the new technology were younger people suggesting that jobs and probably well paid jobs at that where to be welcomed by people of working age.
The main concern I think if environmental issues are solved is not letting the Americans in on the act otherwise we will just become the conduit for all the profits going back to the US.

In reply to an earlier post on 17 Jul 2012 12:40:22 BDT
Last edited by the author on 17 Jul 2012 12:41:54 BDT
gille liath says:
Of course not, nor will you see anything on any other domestic Russian story - unless it's about something cuddly.

I daresay the world service does have an agenda, but we're talking here about the domestic service.

In reply to an earlier post on 17 Jul 2012 13:02:03 BDT
Mr B Tonks says:
Hi Margaret,

Interesting link here for you and anyone else interested in fracking,

http://www.metro.co.uk/news/newsfocus/881838-after-lancashire-quake-are-more-british-earthquakes-on-the-horizon

Apparently since the death of coalmining in this country there has been a decrease of around 10% of earthquakes in Britain which number around 200 a year on average now.
The strongest of the two quakes in Lancs attributed to fracking was 2.3 magnitude which would hardly be felt by most people.
There was a quake in 1976 centred between St Helens and Widnes in 1976 of 4.5 magnitude that was blamed on a nearby colliery that was blasting a new coal face.
I remember that as I was staying at my grandparents house in Widnes at the time and it wasn't really noticeable and I was quite disappointed as I expected the Widnes/Runcorn bridge to crash into the river!

In reply to an earlier post on 17 Jul 2012 13:04:15 BDT
A. Little says:
Fair enough, nothing reported here in Australia ... and the anti-frac propaganda being touted here is hysterical nonsense along the same lines.

Fracking isn't 'unknown technology' though, it's been used routinely to stimulate low productivity oil & gas wells for over a century. Are the local problems you refer to associated with shallow gas?

If you've any abandoned (coal) mine-workings or filled-in landfill sites near you you have far far more to worry about than hydraulic fracturing of a couple of dozen shale-gas wells.

In reply to an earlier post on 17 Jul 2012 13:09:39 BDT
Last edited by the author on 17 Jul 2012 13:10:26 BDT
Mr B Tonks says:
The main coalmining activities (now ceased) were around 30 miles south of where fracking is now taking place,
Further defunct mining activities centred around Burnley and are around the same distance eastwards,
So you reckon former nearby mining areas have the most to worry about concerning fracking?
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Discussion in:  politics discussion forum
Participants:  12
Total posts:  88
Initial post:  4 Jul 2012
Latest post:  20 Jul 2012

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