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Stuart Hall - Is 15 months too lenient?


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Initial post: 17 Jun 2013 18:13:49 BDT
[Deleted by Amazon on 16 Jul 2013 11:48:11 BDT]

Posted on 17 Jun 2013 19:22:45 BDT
How do we measure the appropriateness of a sentence? Why send him to prison at all? How much will it cost the tax payer? Will a prison sentence deter anyone? What about community service and some good psychological change work? Prison is an ancient solution, for ancient times.

Posted on 17 Jun 2013 20:15:01 BDT
Last edited by the author on 17 Jun 2013 20:15:48 BDT
Yep, how about 2,600 hours (65 weeks x 40 hrs, no hols allowed) Community Service, scraping chewing gum off town centre pavements in his home town, or better still Oxford St. Result: the community gets £20,000 of work out of him and can enjoy his humiliation. If 'standard procedure' is followed he will be released from jail after 15 weeks at a cost of £21,000 to taxpayers (with an electronic tag) Result: folks will feel cheated.

Posted on 18 Jun 2013 19:12:34 BDT
The One says:
Hard Labour........

In reply to an earlier post on 18 Jun 2013 19:51:10 BDT
...scraping up chewing gum for 8 hrs a day. All those who want to see his humiliation could have a day trip to watch.

Posted on 18 Jun 2013 20:16:52 BDT
The sentence is apparently based on the tarrif applicable at the time the offences were committed. This would have been at a time long before Sir Jimmy Savile had been all but exhumed for posthumous hanging drawing and quartering and before the current nonce-frenzy was even a gleam in the eye of editors of right-wing newspapers with dwindling sales.

In reply to an earlier post on 18 Jun 2013 21:23:57 BDT
Ah, you mean like Johnnatan Freedland, Guardian columnist, who today wrote, "Stuart Hall's sentence unduly lenient, the judge got it wrong".

In reply to an earlier post on 18 Jun 2013 21:53:50 BDT
Does this mean they will mock up a 1967 style jail for him: slopping out, regular beatings in the showers and no Internet?

In reply to an earlier post on 18 Jun 2013 22:00:18 BDT
Perhaps it will not deter others, but maybe the authorities, in their wisdom, believe that prison will:

* discourage him from doing it again,

* lead to his reformation and rehabilitation

and

* protect the vulnerable from further Hall attacks.

Or maybe it's to satisfy the Herd who want to get enjoyment from the thought of him suffering in jail

Posted on 19 Jun 2013 14:49:08 BDT
Yes it's lenient, because at the time his crime was committed the laws were too lenient.

But look at the 18 counts

Count 1 Touching of a 16 year old's genitals through underwear after plying her with alcohol
Count 2 Grabbing and fondling a 16/17 year old's breasts through clothing and an unwanted kiss
Count 3 Grabbing and fondling a 16/17 year old's breasts through clothing
Count 4 Grabbing and fondling a 16/17 year old's breasts through clothing
Count 5
Count 6 Groping, manually penetrating and upper body kissing of an unclothed 13 year old suffering the effects of alcohol
Count 7 - no details give
Count 8 - no details given
count 9 - no details given
Count 10 15 year old in underwear kissed(breach of trust/television encounter)
Count 11 15 year old in underwear kissed and asked to massage her vagina through underwear with object (breach of trust/television encounter)
Count 12-14 1 Incident with 3 youths (11,13,14), at his home for elocution, encountered hall in underwear (not grave crimes no other details given)
Count 15 10 year old, mild touching, over clothes, indecent circumstances
Count 16 9 year old, upper leg stroked under bedclothes
Count 17 13 year old Forced tongue kiss in car
Count 18 10/11 year old in underwear measured with tape measure over clothes

While any child abuse is horrific, these incidents of child abuse are mostly very mild. which the judge noted saying some of these counts do not meet the custodial threshold.

Mitigating factors in sentencing
Hall Plead guilty (not full credit for a) pleading later than possible and b) publicly declaring the accusations a lie)
Age of 83 (taken into account in custodial sentences allegedly because of the difficulty to the criminal but mostly because old people are expensive to jail)
Most recent crime 25 years ago
Shown some remorse (albeit little and late)

Then the decision that I'm not sure I fully follow, The judge gave 14 concurrent sentences of (6,3,3,3,0,15,0,0,0,6,6,9,9,9,15,15,6,9) months, accounting for totality rather than 14 shorter consecutive sentences, although I believe Hall would have been in jail longer under the consecutive sentencing.
£11,522 paid towards the costs of prosecution (although who knows what percentage of costs that is)
10 years of sexual notification requirements (and the rest of the registry provisions)

so it's light, it's not unreasonable in terms of the laws tying the judges hands. Thank god we have better law now.

In reply to an earlier post on 20 Jun 2013 15:31:09 BDT
are you saying left wing papers are not too bothered about child abuse?

In reply to an earlier post on 20 Jun 2013 15:54:22 BDT
The Guardian said Hall's sentence was, "unduly lenient, the judge got it wrong".

In reply to an earlier post on 20 Jun 2013 16:08:32 BDT
yes I know Gordon but my point was aimed at plagiarism avengers remark that right wing newspapers were in a frenzy over all of these child abuse claims. almost implying that they are bad to state that they want tougher sentencing , whereas the left wing papers are a bastion of responsible reporting.

its pretty poor to try to make political capital from this. I've got news for you P.A. all newspapers are suffering from dwindling sales

In reply to an earlier post on 20 Jun 2013 16:18:50 BDT
How does this abstract entity "the Guardian", speak? Why are you confusing levels of the abstractive semantic process?

In reply to an earlier post on 20 Jun 2013 16:55:39 BDT
[Deleted by Amazon on 16 Jul 2013 11:24:22 BDT]

In reply to an earlier post on 20 Jun 2013 17:11:02 BDT
no

In reply to an earlier post on 20 Jun 2013 17:42:12 BDT
Figure of speech dearie. Now go and bother yourself with something important like taking the dog for a walk.

By the way, you too use language in this way quite often, I'll let you know next time you do it.

In reply to an earlier post on 20 Jun 2013 17:45:36 BDT
I know what he was up to, that's why I said to him, like the Guardian headlined a piece: Hall's sentence unduly lenient, judge got it wrong. He didn't reply.

In reply to an earlier post on 20 Jun 2013 17:47:33 BDT
...but it seems you'd like him to be doing so, then you could get sanctimonious, eh?

In reply to an earlier post on 20 Jun 2013 18:09:15 BDT
[Deleted by Amazon on 16 Jul 2013 11:24:23 BDT]

In reply to an earlier post on 20 Jun 2013 18:11:23 BDT
yes I understood what you were saying and why and agree with you

In reply to an earlier post on 20 Jun 2013 18:14:06 BDT
Last edited by the author on 20 Jun 2013 18:21:14 BDT
how does it seem that i'd like brian to be doing what exactly?

he asked a reasonable question......I answered.

you have questioned a reply that I made to a question that was asked from brian.

how on earth does your response make any sense to a simple question and answer.

I think you are just throwing a little bait out there. well this fish saw the hook.

In reply to an earlier post on 20 Jun 2013 18:34:22 BDT
..but if he'd replied 'yes'?

In reply to an earlier post on 20 Jun 2013 18:36:02 BDT
No, The Snail was reading things into your post that no reasonable person would have done, in my most humble opinion.

In reply to an earlier post on 20 Jun 2013 18:37:18 BDT
did you reply to me by mistake?
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This discussion

Discussion in:  politics discussion forum
Participants:  8
Total posts:  33
Initial post:  17 Jun 2013
Latest post:  5 Jul 2013

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