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Remembering the past, to change the future...the great myth.


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Posted on 16 May 2013 18:09:38 BDT
Last edited by the author on 16 May 2013 18:19:21 BDT
kraka says:
T. S. C.... hi,

Greetings and many thanks for your thoughtful reply with which I agree. We all need some form of fulfillment in our lives otherwise one is left with only an empty meaningless existence. Each of us seeks to achieve that aim in whatever fashion one can, mostly in a materialistic way. My personal experience, like yours, has been that a spiritual dimension in our life has an enriching quality that fulfills us in ways that being totally materialistic does not, even if you live in poverty. But I recognize that this does not appeal to everyone, not everyone is drawn to a spiritual life. Leonard Cohen the poet/author and songwriter wrote "You are locked into your suffering, and your pleasures are the seal" a truth that many may be forced to confront if the greed of capitalism collapses or leaves the majority of us in poverty. The possibility of such a wake-up call may be closer than we think as a greed based culture cannot be sustained indefinately, and after the loss of wealth comes the cold hard reality of hardship.

Yes my friend, life without God is a life that is the poorer for it, but needs to be known and experienced, before it can be measured.

Peace.... Take care my friend..............................................kraka

In reply to an earlier post on 16 May 2013 19:42:31 BDT
J A R P says:
Capitalism is never going to leave us in poverty. The story of the rise of capital is two-fold:

1. An increase in prosperity and material comfort all around, for all, coupled with the benefits of more or less universal employment - long days and work ethic

2. A collapse and obliteration of the Earth - which always goes onward, and never back.

--

In the future, there will be only one aim of politics, and that is the supreme and classical aim of politics:

How to let the wise people who are meditative survive the onslaught of greedy, self satisfied, and violent neighbours who will easily outwit and stamp out any such philosophical community.

It has ever been the case:

You need a Church based on the communion with Being and God
And
You need a King leading a defensive force which will stop less enlightened races from destroying that community.

Tibet, for instance, should have had an army.

Posted on 16 May 2013 19:48:58 BDT
J A R P says:
If you could set up a little kingdom of meditative people schooled in philosophy, and provide it with a state of the art defense force, you could stop environmental degradation, stupidity, and vice - in one part of the globe at least.

You can preach 'living your own life in its idiosyncrasy' all you like. Living a shallow life bound to the illusions of material reality is harmful to others and encourages rivalry and pettiness. If the UK suddenly became Enlightened and ceased to do harm to itself and the environment, it would be reduced to ridicule, poverty, and eventually invasion by the countries all around it.

In reply to an earlier post on 16 May 2013 20:41:21 BDT
Last edited by the author on 16 May 2013 20:54:31 BDT
T. S. C. says:
'kraka says:

T. S. C.... hi,

We all need some form of fulfillment in our lives otherwise one is left with only an empty meaningless existence. Each of us seeks to achieve that aim in whatever fashion one can, mostly in a materialistic way. My personal experience, like yours, has been that a spiritual dimension in our life has an enriching quality that fulfills us in ways that being totally materialistic does not, even if you live in poverty.'

That's pretty much my view too. If you are doing something which makes you unhappy, then why do it? Of course as I said, many of us have no choice to do things that need doing like a job or getting education or caring for someone or doing daily boring chores, that if pushed we might say we don't really like; that's life for many of us unless we have privilege or wealth etc. For the Christian like myself there is also the reality that God will take care of everything, both material and spiritual, and it doesn't mean that because I concentrate on the spiritual doesn't mean that I can't also aspire to better material prosperity. But I have learnt that as I aspire to a better material life and to be successful in my chosen field, I can learn to be grateful 'right now' for the blessings I already have in abundance. Some people think that being a Christian means accepting poverty or that you can't aspire to a better life; not at all, but it does mean that we place material success on a truer footing. I believe life is also about balance. We are material beings; too spiritual perhaps and we lose sight of the everyday. Too material, and we lose sight of the spiritual.

' "You are locked into your suffering, and your pleasures are the seal" a truth that many may be forced to confront if the greed of capitalism collapses or leaves the majority of us in poverty.'

Capitalism works, but only for a minority; look around you at the banking crisis, and the tax avoidance of big business, the horsemeat fiasco and now the oil pricing fixing. This is the tip of the iceberg my friend. If we knew what is really going on, we would all be chastened and would wise up. Sadly, no other political ism has come close to capitalism for being such a part of base human nature.

In reply to an earlier post on 16 May 2013 20:52:37 BDT
T. S. C. says:
'Jason Powell says:

If you could set up a little kingdom of meditative people schooled in philosophy, and provide it with a state of the art defense force, you could stop environmental degradation, stupidity, and vice - in one part of the globe at least.'

Possibly. But organised religion ends up becoming just another control mechanism of the rich and powerful to rubber stamp what they want to do. And every major world religion, though many such religions preach equality, peace, harmony etc have been used to justify violence against others, slavery, 'holy' wars, conquests, land grabbing, crusades and so on. The powers that be in the world also like to present themselves as wise, beneficent, kindly, concerned for the poor, just, when we know that their actions are usually as far from those things as one galaxy is from another.

'You can preach 'living your own life in its idiosyncrasy' all you like.'

I tend to put into practise my Christian faith long before I preach to others. I find that my way of life does no harm to others in any way, in fact quite the opposite. You have to do what gets you through the day, dear boy. If what you do or believe makes you happy, all well and good. If what you do or believe makes you unhappy, well I think you need to think about that; but each to their own.

'Living a shallow life bound to the illusions of material reality is harmful to others and encourages rivalry and pettiness.'

That could be a perfect criticism of modern so-called civilised life in the West today. It is all about rivalry, one person being 'better' than someone else for some usually irrelevant reason or other. No real happiness comes that way, just triumphalism, then an emptiness that can only be momentarily filled by another equally pointless act or irelevancy of some kind.

'If the UK suddenly became Enlightened and ceased to do harm to itself and the environment, it would be reduced to ridicule, poverty, and eventually invasion by the countries all around it.'

Very probably yes.

In reply to an earlier post on 16 May 2013 21:01:33 BDT
Last edited by the author on 17 May 2013 00:04:31 BDT
kraka says:
Jason Powell Hi

Greetings, thanks for your response, very briefly because i have very little time. To be truly spiritual one is not in conflict with the society in which one lives, you would not know anything of my spirituality if i did not tell you. One works conscientously for the common good etc, I personally just have possibly a different outlook and maybe subscribe to a different set of values. I am not tribal or belong to any religion, I am just Joe bloggs next door who fits into society on my own terms in that i follow my own consiounce........................

sorry got to go ill get back to this later

by for now..................................kraka

In reply to an earlier post on 16 May 2013 21:04:31 BDT
K. Hoyles says:
Kraka - 'How would you fare if life stripped you of all that you depend on for your contentment and your exitence became one with a lot of suffering?'

No-one could answer that question until they find themselves in a desperate situation. Some have more inner strength than others. All I know is, in a difficult life situation, peace, harmony, tranquility and fulfilment would not be the most important human emotions required for survival. Strength of mind, determination and resourcefulness would be of more use, and more likely to get me through.

Posted on 16 May 2013 23:23:15 BDT
Last edited by the author on 16 May 2013 23:24:56 BDT
J A R P says:
To Kraka and TSC

I think my point is that 'leading your life as you want' is the philosophy of Microsoft, Coca Cola, and B&Q.

The practical philosophy of kraka and TSC is no different from the established philosophy of Be All You Can Be.

You would do better to fall silent about what is true than parrot the insidious, deeply inhaled fumes of 'personal identity' and freedom.

Ask yourself, why has God / Being given you such a limited and corrupted vocabulary, given you the words uttered by the Apple Corporation, even as it is reasonably clear that this point of historical time is the moment when our type, humans, are racially doomed to destroy the place which, God has said, apparently, is ours in trust.

I demand a bit more seriousness about what you believe, and condemn those who don't believe it to hell; this 'personal liberation' stuff, and keeping yourself to yourself is the attitude of a heathen. It is the attitude of the great murdering 'human', who is in the midst of what most observers of nature consider to be 'the Sixth Great Extinction' event since life on Earth began.

In reply to an earlier post on 16 May 2013 23:29:07 BDT
Spin says:
Kraka: the "common good" is a very dubious phrase. It is akin to the idea of "common sense"...

In reply to an earlier post on 16 May 2013 23:41:29 BDT
kraka says:
K. Hoyles hi

Greetings, YES, i absolutely agree but have you nurtured these qualities?

It might amaze you, to learn what great inner strengths are acquired in spiritual disciplines like meditation/pranayama/kundalini yoga, it tunes mind body and soul to great strength and agility and is the very foundation in the training of shaolin monks for their mastery of the martial arts. They are living proof of its benefits, they can demonstrate that an empty, still, peacefull mind can act whilst others are still pondering what to do. Such spiritual disciplines are designed to enhance inner strength and durability beyond the normal.

Some like to mock it as naval gazing, nothing could be further from the truth.

Cheers...........................................................kraka

In reply to an earlier post on 16 May 2013 23:59:05 BDT
kraka says:
Jason Powell hi,

Greetings, thanks for your reply in which you have aired your opinions, just as i have.
You are no more likely to consider my views as i am yours, so any further argument is worthless. If your mindset is fulfilling your life with what it requires then you have no cause to be disappointed.

I trust your life is a happy one.........................................kraka.

In reply to an earlier post on 17 May 2013 00:03:50 BDT
kraka says:
Spin....I was trying to race against the clock, with my attention twixt the time and typing with one finger. I intended to return and rewrite it. Now I plan just to delete it.

In reply to an earlier post on 17 May 2013 00:16:44 BDT
K. Hoyles says:
Kraka - 'Greetings, YES, i absolutely agree but have you nurtured these qualities?'

Nurtured them? Oh I think so. It's called living a life.

In reply to an earlier post on 17 May 2013 00:19:31 BDT
Spin says:
Kraka: No problem: My curiosity was just attracted to the idea of a "common good" (An idea not shared by the "common" we usually call "society") and so begs definition. Is this world not in the mess it is in because of differences in what folk consider "the common good"?
Your reply to Spin's post:
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In reply to an earlier post on 17 May 2013 18:46:14 BDT
T. S. C. says:
'Jason Powell says:

To Kraka and TSC

I think my point is that 'leading your life as you want' is the philosophy of Microsoft, Coca Cola, and B&Q.

The practical philosophy of kraka and TSC is no different from the established philosophy of Be All You Can Be.'

Ok mate, whatever you say. You can deduce a whole person's philosophy by a few words? Ok fair enough.

Incidentally, just what is your philosophy for living and what makes you happy?

In reply to an earlier post on 17 May 2013 18:53:18 BDT
T. S. C. says:
'kraka says:

K. Hoyles hi

It might amaze you, to learn what great inner strengths are acquired in spiritual disciplines like meditation/pranayama/kundalini yoga, it tunes mind body and soul to great strength and agility...

Some like to mock it as naval gazing, nothing could be further from the truth.'

I guess it's all just POV in the end, as we have just seen! If something does no harm to others and brings some kind of peace and fulfilment, then perhaps it has some value. We can even learn in the end from people who even vehemently disagree with us can't we?

In reply to an earlier post on 17 May 2013 18:56:13 BDT
T. S. C. says:
'K. Hoyles says:

Kraka - 'Greetings, YES, i absolutely agree but have you nurtured these qualities?'

Nurtured them? Oh I think so. It's called living a life.'

In the end we all have one life to live, and how we live it is down to our decision and our decision alone. If you are fortunate, you find something that makes you happy, brings inner peace, and allows you to get on with other people as much as is possible at the same time, regardless of what they do or believe themselves. It all boils down to respect; respect for self, respect for others and perhaps for a Christian like myself respect for God.
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Discussion in:  politics discussion forum
Participants:  13
Total posts:  67
Initial post:  4 May 2013
Latest post:  17 May 2013

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