Shop now Shop now Shop now  Up to 70% Off Fashion  Shop all Amazon Fashion Cloud Drive Photos Shop now Learn More Shop now Shop now Shop Fire Shop Kindle Shop now Shop now Shop now
Customer Discussions > politics discussion forum

The implications of abolishing psychiatry

Sort: Oldest first | Newest first
Showing 1-25 of 119 posts in this discussion
In reply to an earlier post on 26 Jun 2013 08:19:08 BDT
The desire for madness is pleasure.

In reply to an earlier post on 25 Jun 2013 21:58:59 BDT
Spin says:
Jason: The desire for pleasure is madness.

Posted on 25 Jun 2013 21:44:05 BDT
J A R P says:
I suppose that most married men and women would be sectioned individually if what they did to each other in private was revealed. Love is madness.

Posted on 25 Jun 2013 00:59:06 BDT
Spin says:
"Psychiatry" is a con. Paying people to comment on what they think you are thinking is folly. If you do not know what is going on in your mind the last thing you need is an interpreter...

Posted on 25 Jun 2013 00:32:51 BDT
As regards psychiatry, the only illness that never really achieves cure - "We'll discuss that at your next session" - I love the joke that goes:

A man attended a psychiatrist and said he had monsters under his bed. He could not sleep. The 'shrink' said he would undertake the man's treatment and the sessions would be $300.00 per event. The man said he would consider the matter further but he never went back.

Some months later the doctor saw the man in the street and asked why he had not come to have his problem sorted. He replied that a friend in the pub, for the price of a large beer, had cured him. "How", asked the doctor? The man replied, "He told me to saw the legs off the bed and now they can't get under there".

Posted on 23 Jun 2013 21:11:06 BDT
Interesting discussion.

Psychiatry is something of a trojan horse in our society. Although it makes a pretense of good intentions, positive agendas and parodies libertarian, humanist values, it's overarching intentions are not so pure, its agenda negative, and the values it enshrines different to those to that which it professes. I'm not advancing some sort of conspiracy theory here, I just think the profession and society itself is deceiving itself on a monumental scale, that there is a huge disconnect between our rhetoric and the truth, that the very language we use to frame issues of "mental illness" is calibrated to deceive ourselves and our audience about the true emotions, values and impulses upon which psychiatry itself is founded, and theories of "mental illness" and "mental health" policies also. The world is full of control freaks and abusers, for example, (and the profession has something of a gravitational pull for people who derive psychological gratification from controlling others), who covertly promote their own interests while professing to promote the interests of those they abuse and control. Self-deception is perhaps one of the most active of all psychological processes in man, and your average psychiatrist, head of a relevant government agency or lobby group, nurse etc., is no different.

Psychiatry generally is like one of these parents who in wishing to punish or control their child, claims they are only doing what is best for them and because they love them.

As for the comment I made about bad intentions, I think the pervasive prejudgement of psychiatrists and nurses as having good intentions (that characterizes and ultimately cripples the general discourse on this issue), can be used as a lever by the oppressors to escape responsibility for their actions, which I believe in a more morally refined, less hypocritical society, would fall within the purview of the criminal justice system. There is not a single person on the planet who doesn't profess to have good intentions in everything they do, but the currents that converge in a man's nature are many and divergent. Your average psychiatrist and nurse, as far as I'm concerned, is no more an idealist than your average politician or lawyer. Many are merely concerned with socio-economic advancement, with distinguishing themselves in a particular sphere of activity and reaping the psychological, economical and social benefits that accrue to distinction. Of course, acknowledging this might open a Pandora's box of psychological evils, so they put a romantic, humanitarian gloss on their greed, on their will to power, on their will to control and to feel important, rationalizing it as "compassion" for us socially dead lepers, and other words with pleasant emotional connotations. I don't mean to demonize them, just saying human beings are not angels either.

The other problem I see for the "good intentions" brigade, is there is no acknowledgement of conflict as a determining factor in the nature of human action and impulse. There is so much conflict between patients and psychiatrists/nurses (which is conveniently medicalized), it is hard to take these claims seriously. Different kinds of relationships appeal to the different poles of our nature. Conflict harnesses all the worst aspects in man, spite, malice, violence etc. I know this seems random, but I felt the need to defend the grounds on which my argument is based.

Mr Anthony Wilde says, to paraphrase, that it helps some people, and that if we didn't have it these people wouldn't have help. Yet arguing for the abolition of an institution is not the same as arguing against its being superseded by a system of care that truly aims to help people (rather than augmenting their burden of adversity which psychiatry has been doing for a couple of hundred years). I believe it important to remember also that debates are often won or lost by trying to concentrate the audience's focus on certain sides of an issue. The "pro-psychiatrists" always try to focus attention on the supposed positives, and the immense harm done is consigned neatly to oblivion. It doesn't matter how many tens of millions of brains these people mutilate and destroy, the war on mental illness, and the mission of the messianic psychiatrist, renders all depravity permissible.

Yet what good does psychiatry really do? It is all based on speculation and anecdote, there is no science behind any of these claims. When patients spout heresies, the fallibility of human thought and speech is invoked, or more commonly, the "illness" is blamed. Yet when patients claim to have been helped, their word is sacrosanct.

Psychiatry, as has been pointed out before, deals with deviations from social, ethical, and political norms. Real medical professions deal with deviations from anatomical and physiological norms. Psychiatrists need to accept this and stop hiding behind the idiom, symbology and traditional practice of medicine and the medical professions respectively. It is not a medical profession, it is about social control, regardless of the intentions and beliefs of individual practitioners.

Comparing it to other medical professions will only serve to confound our thinking on this issue. Psychiatric hospitals are de facto penitentiaries for the confinement and conditioning of society's most wretched, most powerless, most despised and most annoying people, environments where torture, coercion and abuse are a part of the every day administrative fabric.

Some psychiatrist on here says he can't be doing with us abolitionists. Well tough. What are you going to do, lock us all up in your nominal hospital and extort recantations from us by pumping us full of pathogenic chemicals, or administering large doses of electricity, or mutilating our brains (lobotomy is making a comeback across the globe, along with other forms of brain damage. Of course, this is often being done without the consent of the victim, which is another point of disagreement between psychiatry and real medical professions)?

There is a very good reason why there is no anti-cardiology movement, no anti-oncology movement!

If Institutional psychiatry were to repudiate coercion, I would recant my abolitionism, and focus on reforming it, but like Thomas Szasz, I believe institutional psychiatry and coercion are like conjoined twins.

One person makes the absolutely groundless claim that more people would commit suicide if it wasn't for the "meds" (there is only a linguistic distinction between illegal drugs and "psychiatric meds". They are all mind altering drugs). The fact that ridiculous amounts of people have committed suicide on psychiatric drugs seems to have escaped that person's notice. Psychiatry is not in the business of preventing suicide, but promoting it, through its stigmatizing labels, its humiliation of patients, and its soul destroying "treatments".

As for the belief in mental illness, the logic is entirely circular. Why does so and so behave this way? Because he is mentally ill. How do we know he is mentally ill? Because he behaves this way. There are no biological or genetic markers for "mental illnesses", even the head of NIMH, the leading government research institute for the study of "mental illnesses", admitted this only recently.

It is just a colossal reification. It is also a panchreston, which denotes the subsumption of a broad, heterogeneous range of phenomena to a simple "explain-all" term, that at best is too broadly conceived of and applied, and at worst explains absolutely nothing!

There has been practically no real progress in psychiatry. Diagnosis still suffers from the same problems of validity and reliability. Coercion is more of a problem now than ever. The "treatments", according to pretty much any barometer of improvement, have been no more successful than the supposedly more barbaric treatments of the past. Yet the profession seems to have a seemingly limitless capacity for deluding itself, which is ironic, considering these people are supposedly so in touch with reality, it is they who should go around delivering people from their delusions. Diagnostician, diagnose yourself!

Indeed the incidences of brain damage and disease in this our supposedly golden age of psychiatric therapeutics, is probably greater than every other age of psychiatric therapeutics put together. I think it is time we started focusing on the dangerous delusions of psychiatrists. Don't get me wrong though, I am not saying you are "mentally ill", your problems are human in character, all too human.

As much as I agree with Peter on most of what he said, I cannot agree that the heinous violence against that most important, most delicate, most complex of human organs, the brain, is a necessary evil. There are far less intrusive, less harmful ways of dealing with dangerous individuals. Who will protect the individual from the dangerous society and its protectors? Forced drugging or ECT is counterproductive. Not only does it traumatize people, but it humiliates them, and humiliation all too often begets violence. So much of the violence of mental patients is counter-violence, an all too human reaction to forced "treatment", and all the humiliation, oppression and encroachment on an individual's autonomy that that entails. It also brutalizes those who mete out such treatment, who have to live with what they do, and can only do so by vilifying and demonizing the victim, precipitating the individual down the slippery slope of self-justification and moral corruption. This is why the testimony of psychiatrists and nurses about their victims should be met with scepticism. Victimizers can't be trusted to tell the truth about their victims.

Roma says to Peter, to paraphrase, I am pleased to tell you there are psychiatrists who care. I'm sure you genuinely believe that, but I am not interested in what psychiatrists say, but in making inferences based on what they do. What people say is rarely of any worth in ascertaining the truth. Language is usually little more than an instrument of falsification and deception. Maybe you are right though, maybe you are one of the good guys, I am sure there are some mostly well meaning psychiatrists, I am just not so sure they constitute a majority.

In reply to an earlier post on 12 Mar 2013 15:40:58 GMT
Pipkin says:
Thanks SWJ and Dan, I'll have a look and try and sort it out.

In reply to an earlier post on 6 Mar 2013 00:35:46 GMT
Last edited by the author on 11 Mar 2013 00:40:41 GMT
light says:
Hi Roma,

When I was 10 we went for a nice visit to Germany for about 1 month. It was the only time we flew over seas. I would love to visit the UK someday.

I think that it's so interesting that people from Africa, Ireland, Scotland, Canada, Germany, Australia....and more can all come here to have discussions and learn new things, I've made some really good friends too.

The time on this thread says that it's 12:35, it is 7:35 where I am so there is a 5 hour difference.

take care light

In reply to an earlier post on 6 Mar 2013 00:29:26 GMT
Roma says:
Hi i was going to say Nighty night, Light
Sleep tight, Light
when realised by your reference to the Amish Country you were e mailing from USA and i haven t a clue about the time difference. The internet s amazing, isn t it.? I wonder how many different nationalities are represented on our forums. I ve never visited USA. Have you crossed the pond to visit our fair shores?

In reply to an earlier post on 6 Mar 2013 00:12:14 GMT
light says:
Hi Margaret,

You spelling is fine ;o)

"You should have no problem, if you can remember not to be so forthrite. Many men find this unappealing."

I wonder if that is that due to an ego problem? I've heard that a woman who is aggressive in business is called a B--tch and men who are aggressive are called successful. Who would'a thunk it ;o)

GM coming in a couple of days.

Take care light

In reply to an earlier post on 6 Mar 2013 00:07:55 GMT
light says:
Hi Roma,

There are some activities where I live I don't know too much about them yet since I am a youngster of 52 ;o) Some of the senior apartment buildings have activities which are fun movie night, exercise, birthday parties, bus trips to Amish country.....

Zumba now that sounds like fun!

Socializing can lift the spirits which would help to keep a person a little more healthier. People tend to get sicker when they isolate themselves.

take care light

In reply to an earlier post on 5 Mar 2013 16:08:25 GMT
Roma says:
No, no . We don t make spelling mistakes - just typographical errors.

In reply to an earlier post on 5 Mar 2013 13:59:59 GMT
Oh you flatter me, I'll blush !! lol
I think that's my downfall, should just sit and be pretty and keep shtum =D

Don't think your spelling's that bad - haven't really noticed anything that glaringly bad tbh, if it's any consolation I come across a fair few people at work who can barely spell their own name right =)

I uses Google Chrome at home, but it's spell check is American English so it flags up the words that are spelt right, but wrong to it. Works computer I think is Internet Explorer 5 (maybe 6 at a push) - oooooold school !!

In reply to an earlier post on 5 Mar 2013 13:53:10 GMT
Last edited by the author on 5 Mar 2013 13:55:49 GMT
Dan Fante says:
Like SZJ says. Firefox has a spell-check (I'm sure the others do but that's the one I use). It's US English though so I often ignore it ;-)
You can probably download other dictionaries as well though, if it bothers you.

In reply to an earlier post on 5 Mar 2013 13:47:29 GMT
Internet Browser, it's what you look at the internet with (Internet Explorer, Firefox, Chrome etc).

In reply to an earlier post on 5 Mar 2013 13:36:18 GMT
Pipkin says:
Forgive my ignorance Dan, but what is a 'browser.'

In reply to an earlier post on 5 Mar 2013 13:25:13 GMT
Dan Fante says:
You can often activate a spell-check on the browser you are using (or use a browser that has one).

In reply to an earlier post on 5 Mar 2013 13:17:14 GMT
Pipkin says:
I would much rather be working than not....
Intelligence, looks and the ability to learn - You should have no problem, if you can remember not to be so forthrite. Many men find this unappealing.
Is it me or is my spelling rubbish? My dyslexia appears to have kicked in big time, and this new PC only spell checks on emails and documents. I havn't worked out where to find the 'tool' to do it yet.

In reply to an earlier post on 5 Mar 2013 11:44:40 GMT
With the way things are atm I'll still be working lol
Unless I can find myself a sugar daddy first =D

Posted on 5 Mar 2013 11:34:23 GMT
TomC says:
Getting old isn't so bad when you consider the alternative .....

In reply to an earlier post on 5 Mar 2013 11:29:17 GMT
Pipkin says:
Hi Ko,
Something to look forward too then... Start counting the days, it flies by. I wonder what will be on offer when you get there? :)

In reply to an earlier post on 5 Mar 2013 10:26:38 GMT
Who says old folk have it tough, doesn't sound so bad to me ;)

In reply to an earlier post on 5 Mar 2013 09:55:06 GMT
Roma says:
Hi Light. I m very lucky where i live as there are lots of activities that are free or cost only a pound. This with free bus passes for the over 60 s (i don t qualify) means that there s no deterrent to people engaging in them. I enjoy going to an over 50 s zumba class. It s great fun and i have a good laugh at myself.Swimming is free for the over 60s and when i went for a swim last week, the pool was full of pensioners who were laughing and swimming as they swam their breadth s or fully focused if length were their aim. Many do this every day .Afterwards they socialise in the tea room with a wee cup of tea. (2pounds annually for the tea.) D

I think the result of this will be a great saving for the NHS. It encourages people to keep fit and to socialise thereby helping to prevent both physical and mental problems.

In reply to an earlier post on 5 Mar 2013 08:36:55 GMT
I'll have to try it - am hoping for nice shiny hair. If it all falls out I'll be coming for you =P
Sadly not warmer here, it's been the whole typical winter shebang here - freezing & snow since about October - last year it still snowed in April !! brrr The other week we had everything in one day - started off with a storm, then went to snow, then rain, then sun, then hail, then cloud, briefly back to sun before snowing again !! One plus side of living here though is there's very little light polution, so on a clear night all you can see are stars, I could sit out and just look at them for hours .
I need to start doing the lotto so I can move to walmer climes =D

I think the trouble with BM is that as there is a lot of anti-war feeling, people are more likely to want to see him get off as he's a 'hero' against something they disagree with. I personally, as you know, want to see him sent down as that is what he deserves for his crimes - whether he's morally right or wrong is an aside as he will have signed the Official Secrets Act (or US equivalent) and passed on confidential/secret documents which is a punishable offence. These documents which were freely available on the internet could have been seen by anyone and possibly/potentially put the lives of his fellow men in danger.
So regardless of the good intentions or bad motives etc he broke military law and so has to face the consequences of that. imo ;)

Even I will have to sign the OSA when I leave my job and I don't have access to nor know anything remotely important, such is life.

Another sunny day today !! HOORAY =)

(oh dear, completely rambled ... I really need to practice writing less lol)

In reply to an earlier post on 5 Mar 2013 03:45:56 GMT
light says:
Hi Roma,

Diet has a lot to do with mental health too, it's very important to take care of one's body, soul and psyche.

My son learned in school that more of the mental state is inherited than first thought. The environment has an effect on mental health, and food and they've also learned that emotional well being is inherited more than they once thought.

I'm a care giver for the elderly and it can be very depressing at times so I look for support any where I can, (mainly spiritual studies), to keep myself from falling into a mental state that would be difficult to get out of.

I see that you help out support groups for carers, so it's important for you to get support for yourself as well.

take care light
‹ Previous 1 2 3 4 5 Next ›
[Add comment]
Add your own message to the discussion
To insert a product link use the format: [[ASIN:ASIN product-title]] (What's this?)
Prompts for sign-in

Recent discussions in the politics discussion forum

  Discussion Replies Latest Post
BHS. 120 4 seconds ago
It's alright slating the Russians over Olympic drug taking BUT how many of the disabled lot take drugs, they are always popping pills but do they ever make the news. 1 1 minute ago
Remember the Labour Party well and good--- Tony Blair did disarm Gadhafi of much WMD by invading Iraq in 2003 455 12 minutes ago
And yet again... 118 1 hour ago
Labour refuse to comment on allegations that Jeremy Corbyn is a homosexual paedophile. 6 11 hours ago
I will not be heard... 65 11 hours ago
Leftin wants a rumble, he's getting all Corbynistic and threatening. He's getting his gang together, I can hear the pitter patter of sandals coming my way. 23 11 hours ago
Book (Tortured for Christ) show how horrible and murderous the communist government of North Korea was to Christians 127 13 hours ago
How do socialists propose to deal with the chav/underclass...? 57 14 hours ago
Book (Snapping of the American Mind) shows Harvard tests proving homosexuality is from parental neglect 43 14 hours ago
Those who pay for education should consider the benefits of a bonus system for students. 26 16 hours ago
Free Leslie Van Houten. 15 17 hours ago

More Customer Discussions

Most active community forums
Most active product forums

Amazon forums

This discussion

Discussion in:  politics discussion forum
Participants:  23
Total posts:  119
Initial post:  2 Mar 2013
Latest post:  26 Jun 2013

New! Receive e-mail when new posts are made.
Tracked by 2 customers

Search Customer Discussions