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Much younger/older partners - Friendship/Romance: Beyond cut off yrs.


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Posted on 1 Jul 2010 08:47:50 BDT
Withnail says:
Whats happening??? You have me hooked!

In reply to an earlier post on 1 Jul 2010 12:30:19 BDT
Last edited by the author on 5 Feb 2012 14:06:18 GMT
Five first, as it`s the easiest in my view: Doing things with people is great, and even greater when part of an "active" friendship, but high order friendships only require empistry, to which I`ve referred, in order to go all the way, all the way to genuine and "unconditional" friendship, all the way to the very top. Essentially, they need not become active friendships (time and place) in order to do this, but empistry (played out understanding - caring) must be total, and obviously, times together of acceeding quality.
Friendship of this order can, and frequently does, make the difference between life and death, such as when people are brought down by family issues, or others within their own peer group. Neither chemistry nor empathy between people are period since birth determined. It`s not quite as society might have you believe, and I`ve discovered this for myself through a long process of intensive learning through life experience.
It`s simple mathematics - 19 yrs, to cut-off, say 30 yrs in this girls case, uncommonly high. If there`s one chance for twenty years, of ever having a life saving friend, there must be two chances for forty, with cut-off here, and so on.
Some men are predisposed much younger, that is to say that it`s not a merely a preference ffor them but actually something far more fundamental. Many of these men would perhaps be capable of visualising that beautiful friendship, perhaps denied them just the once, but equally perhaps, denied them a hundred times past, with no escape from life long rejection.rejection. Add this to depression and an especially selfless, and a romantic heart. What do you think might happen?
Did I say that all your views concur, perhaps, for society is the strongest magnet. Is it possible to escape all of its force entirely, I think not.
Both of my closest friends have boyfriends, but that doesn`t even come up on the radar between us, any more than if we were all girls. Why should it? It`s a good point of yours, but I don`t actually believe it`s what blocks all the friendships here. I have discovered nothing to support this notion, have you, for you only need to see how the socioageopaths amongst them react, and then how that spreads down. Going back, most of them want their friendships as much as they want their boyfriends.
Define "shared experiences" - what`s the problem here beyond just the way this sentiment has come to sound, in actual terms? I cycled to Cornwall with one girl, had previously had the experience, and then we shared it. From a different prospective, to dance is to dance, to swim to swim, and so on, first time for one, or, first time for both, it`s essentially the same, and to do something for the first time together is to do something for the first time, this regardless of respective age(?) If there`s too much in common regards activities most people would, eventually at least, find this most boring.
Girl`s perceptions are created to include the notion that male individuals don`t in entirety exist as complete individuals beyond cut-off years, and that they have too little in common for a serious friendship to happen. So, nothing does, both for this, and the reasons given in previous posts - Society induced discrimination! They tend to the last thing, the lowest common denominator, when there are apparently things in common, and they make certain then to retain their focus here, for it`s in the programming. I said, the discrimination is powerful, and it`s more than enough to blinker us all!
Friendship isn`t about seduction, but rather, the creation of oneness. Their peers are practising the art of seduction constantly, and with the procreation imperative to insure their success. They are by far the best in the art (crime) of deception! Beyond cut-off yrs, yr. age revealed, you wouldn`t have any chance what-so-ever, not with any of them. Friendship isn`t about trying to get something from someone else, but can you, hand on heart say, do you honestly believe, that this sentiment was born in youth? Without this programmed state in place, one affecting the notion of reality for, broadly speaking, the whole of our society, girls would know far better, and age regardless, whom they could most GENUINELY trust. Despite everything a few still do. Ten years inside to five to ten years outside cut-off years can be a nasty place, and a massive problem for our society, more essentially, those girls that fall victim.

In reply to an earlier post on 1 Jul 2010 17:54:26 BDT
Last edited by the author on 23 Jan 2012 10:48:32 GMT
I was involved in one of those incidents today, you know, those ones where the girlfriend gets attacked by her boyfriend. There`s around ten years separating them!

In reply to an earlier post on 2 Jul 2010 01:19:11 BDT
Dreamer says:
I want to give you a proper answer but it may take a while as I am visiting relatives over the weekend. I'll get back to you on Monday.

Posted on 2 Jul 2010 07:43:37 BDT
See you then!

Posted on 2 Jul 2010 21:09:53 BDT
Shakti~ says:
I'm far too lazy to read this thread in its entirety, but very quickly reading between the lines..it seems that you DR Kates want to create life long meaningful friendships with young people.....and feel like you can't achieve this because of this ageopathy thing....right/wrong??

hmmm my question to you would be why are you so desperate to create these bonds with young people??? in my experience, people don't go 'looking' for genuine friendship, that happens naturually as part of life.... have you never experienced real friendship thus far in your life? how old are you now? are you Billy no mates?? ( just kidding!!hehe) appologies if others have already put these points forward....

and as a 42 year old woman, I have met some wonderful people in my life of a variety of ages and as a result have experienced some fascinating and educational friendships. In my early twenties I went working away in the hotel trade.... and as a consequence met lots of people from all walks of life, in one particular hotel I worked in , my boss told me that I should consider a career working with old people, as I had such a natural rapport with them. The reason why i had such a natural rapport, is because I found old people the most interesting people to talk to........such incredible life experiences, with so much wisdom and knowledge to share. Perhaps young people don't want to be your bud, not because of an age difference issue, maybe you are just boring?

Posted on 2 Jul 2010 21:12:30 BDT
Shakti~ says:
appologies if I've got it wrong cos of my laziness.....

In reply to an earlier post on 2 Jul 2010 21:36:19 BDT
Shakti~ says:
kerching!! thats my conclusion after trying to decipher the previous posts

In reply to an earlier post on 2 Jul 2010 21:49:04 BDT
Shakti~ says:
I concur!!

In reply to an earlier post on 2 Jul 2010 22:08:31 BDT
Last edited by the author on 23 Jan 2012 10:54:58 GMT
Ideally we`d all find our frienships where we`re most comfortable and feel the most happy. You`re achieving that goal with older people, that`s fine, whilst I am with younger, equally so, and it honestly makes no difference which, older or younger. Perhaps it`s that you prefer history, and I science fiction, but why is it you feel the need to excuse your age predisposition anyway? Where there is a perfect empistry match it`s never boring!
I`ve also travelled, but with all ages, though my around the world cycling girlfriend obviously wasn`t old. Old people are interesting, and I also spend time with them, but more often I experience far more both chemistry and empathy with younger people - We often have more in common as simply people. There`s no right or wrong here!

Posted on 2 Jul 2010 22:15:19 BDT
Shakti~ says:
Ok,I have tried to actually read your posts Dr Kates, not sure why you write the way you do, little pretentious for me , better to keep it simple and to the point if you don't want to be misunderstood...... anyway trying to get the jist of things, you're a bit of an older bloke, being a bit of a 'celebrity' on the club scene for a while...hmm not sure what you mean by celebrity?? you made lots of happy new young friends, the girls flocked to you, the boys were jealous of you because of it, you had a fancy website and everyone was bonny and happy in 'friendship' land, until the parents of the girls you were secretly fantasizing about having sex with when you were having your 'non-active' friendship dance with, found out how many minutes and seconds you had been on the planet since your parents conception, blah blah blah......( much easier to say til they found out how old I was, sometimes trying to be too clever is counterproductive) anyway...as a result your website was disbanded and your friends all dissappeared......hmmmm

I don't think your questions are about the psychology of agism......your just a bit p*ssed off cos you fancy young girls and it's not reciprocated...get over it, you are not a buff 22 year old anymore and unless you have a bank account like hugh heffner, it aint happening mate!! stop blaming social and pyschological conditioning for your lack of getting laid. I have a 13 year old daughter, she is tall and stunning and could easily pass for a seventeen year old.....she gets eyed up by older males all the time....don't think its just a father instincts who want you and all other males to keep their dirty hands and eyes of their daughters........its mothers too!.......more so infact!!

In reply to an earlier post on 2 Jul 2010 22:17:50 BDT
Shakti~ says:
Have you ever wanted tro have sex with your sixteen/ seventeen year old 'mates' ?

In reply to an earlier post on 3 Jul 2010 09:11:36 BDT
Damaskcat says:
He claims not - I was suggesting that was the reason for his original posts but he says that's all in my mind. Friendship to me can transcend all boundaries of age, culture or whatever - but as you say you don't go looking for it - it happens - often where you least expect it. The creepiest person I ever came across was one who said to me she was going to work on our friendship because she really needed more friends - I got out of there as quickly as I could.

In reply to an earlier post on 3 Jul 2010 09:42:57 BDT
Last edited by the author on 5 Feb 2012 14:02:04 GMT
NOTHING IS KNOWN OF A PERSON MERELY ON ACCOUNT OF TIME ELAPSED SINCE BIRTH, AND NOT ONLY DOES THAT EXTEND TO INCLUDE HIS AGE (HOW MUCH HE`S AGED), BUT ALSO ANY AND ALL NOTIONS AS TO THE ROAD TO HIS POPULARITY, OR NOT, AS THE CASE MIGHT BE. This is only my philosophy/absolute truth(?), and has nothing to do with whether I may be "young", or not, for my years.
No, you totally missed everything, THE FRIENDSHIPS WERE/COULD HAVE BEEN active ones. This was because the girls were not, until such time as they actually were, forced to the realization of my actual years. None of the parents were ever involved, and neither, as might have been the case for yourself, had it anything to do with sex. For friendship hasn`t, other than when it`s obviously masquerading as something else. It`s a very common occurence within their own peer group as we should all know! They knew how old I was, how much I`d aged-my effective age, and everything pertaining to this, only just, not how long I`d been alive.
The reason it reads this way might be because I`m mostly trying to reply to concerns in earlier posts, and those posts themselves are very often off the point a little? This discussion is in my opinion alreadt over perplexed in trying to detail its science and that as consequence to this simple language is now the more adequate. All my terms, they are few, have been defined on the opening pages, which should help, and there are considerable clarifications throughout. We can indeed, with the effort, be less animal, and then, perhaps, just a little more human. Thanks for your comments thus far.

In reply to an earlier post on 3 Jul 2010 10:24:37 BDT
Damaskcat says:
D R Kates - your way of phrasing things confuses the people who are trying to discuss this issue with you.

Put simply you are saying - I think - that friendship can and does happen across age groups. I have no problems with that. What you also seem to be saying is that society puts up barriers to friendships between older men and teenage girls but that if neither party knows the other's age then they can get on very well together. It is when the age gap is revealed everyone's attitude changes. You're saying this is because there is discrimination against older men being friends with young girls - based on your own experience. You're also saying that this discrimination shouldn't happen because it's based on something false - i.e. age.

Personally I think society puts up these barriers for very good reasons - that often these men are interested in teenage girls for one reason and one reason alone. I'm not saying all men think like that but many do. You can blame it all on Nabokov's Lolita if you like - but that book was just putting in fictional form something which the author saw happening in society otherwise the book wouldn't have been so popular. It contained a universal truth.

I have been friends with men very much younger than myself - both at work and in a social setting. There is prejudice against this sort of friendship as well though I must admit that has never affected me - probably because the people I mix wiith do not have that sort of prejudice. .

Posted on 3 Jul 2010 12:31:16 BDT
[Deleted by the author on 3 Jul 2010 21:37:14 BDT]

Posted on 3 Jul 2010 12:31:56 BDT
Last edited by the author on 5 Feb 2012 13:56:49 GMT
Shaki
Not all girls are (of themselves) predisposed by age, they are, age aside, predisposed in terms of where they are most attracted. This is only supposed to be a friendship discussion, but to cater for your preoccupation, and to continue, these girls, if it were not for their ageist programming, would on occassion be responsive to older guys (beyond the otherwise cut-off years) in active friendships. How long we`ve been alive is not an absolution to how much we`ve aged, nor indeed, any other single factor pertaining to over-all attractiveness. It is my contention that this wired in age discrimination over quality friendships, but more essentially, active friendships supercedes predisposition
The girls are having all their problems within house, and don`t even go with much older men that you can compare. What is known for sure is that the procreation imperative declines with time, and that this opens, rather than closes, the way through to genuine (not hidden agenda) friendships.
The closest friendships happen naturally, and you can talk your way away, but seldom toward. Good instincts here are everything!
All men, of nearly all ages, are a problem to young women, but by far their biggest problem is with those at and up to around ten years of their own age. Much older men are much more to be trusted in friendship! The majority of their peers would gladly heap all their energies into a plotonic relationship, not - This is where the main problem resides, and age discrimination has a highly negative effect upon it.

In reply to an earlier post on 3 Jul 2010 15:44:04 BDT
Last edited by the author on 5 Feb 2012 13:56:01 GMT
When you bridge cut-off years cross-gender meaningful friendships are very scarse. I say again, twenty five approx. takes you outside of much of the discrimatory programming, and it`s fading in preceeding years. If you happen, as a male, to be part of one of these friendships your true unconditionalness shall be tested, you will be dumped, sooner, or later, almost certainly. This is most likely to occur when the friendship is truly blossoming, at a time when men are the most jealous - they need say quite little for programmed fears to rekindle. Such is the power of social age discrimination here, and such is the extent of the jealousy.
You may be told nothing verbally, yet you must realize immediately, no closure to be had here, it`s an us and them situation now, and as silently as your coming you must depart. In questioning the unconditional nature, well, if you pressure them you will most surely know! The more genuine the friendship the least likely it is to last. The capacity for these friendships, under these circumstances, and done well, might also be an absolute measure for capacity in friendship.
The reason the book was a best seller was because it told people/society what they wanted to hear(?) How many would read my book? he he

In reply to an earlier post on 3 Jul 2010 21:35:14 BDT
Last edited by the author on 5 Feb 2012 13:53:26 GMT
You wont tend to see in our society girls having friendships of any consequence with guys beyond cut-off years, because as we`ve discussed, they are blocked from having them. All the good is compromised, and quite simply, what`s left must be the bade. The mind-set is what makes this so! So yes, that`s what you`ll sometimes discover here, imperfection, the otherwise perfect relationships with older guys having been blocked into non-existence.
Most men of all ages find that which is most attractive most attractive, including myself, but what counts is actually only your capacity in being a human being over what would be your otherwise self, merely a human animal, and at whatever age you might reside.
When you deny something to a group, some cope, the vast majority in this case, but some, the animals among us, help themselves. Animals arehowever abundantly more commonly more active whilst they are young animals!
This age discrimination I refer over the guys beyond cut-off years does undoubtably create a backlash - Just let them treat their male counterparts this way to see what would consequence between those two groups then. We already have peer pressure to have sex to contend with, boyfriend pressure to sex, gang rapes, boyfriend rapes, X rapes, the list goes on and on, and all because they cannot get enough sex whilst they are young!
We should look at this in reverse at some point, at much younger boyfriends. As I keep repeating, less programming but enhanced instincts, for you cannot have both together, would be a God send - Less full blooded age discrimination, and more capacity for realizing the individual.
Any other questions? he he

Posted on 4 Jul 2010 11:05:22 BDT
Damaskcat says:
I'm sorry but what has incest got to do with it? I thought we were discussing friendship across age groups? There are other forms of incest apart from father/daughter incest anyway.

Rape - by the way - is about power not about sex.

I'm afraid I don't really agree with you about pressure form other people. Many people of all ages use that as a way out of situations they aren't sure about in my experience. 'My family didn't like my firends so I had to drop them; my other friends did not like my new friend so I dropped him or her'. You hear these sort of comments all the time. I don't think what you're talking about is a purely teenage girl/older man issue anyway. I also think that there is far less pressure on people these days to only have friends from certain age groups.

My - male - partner is 14 years younger than I am and we've been together over 20 years. Neither of us encountered any criticism of our relationship once people realised how well we got on. People were dubious at first though not to the extent of putting pressure on either of us to give up the relationship. Pressure is very much what you make it in my opinion. I always got on well with much younger men - and women at work - and was asked to mentor several during my working life because I was regarded as someone who could get on well with people whatever their age. I have also had long running friendships with men between 10 and 30 years older than myself. So you can see my experience does not really tally with your experience. I think it's very much down to the individuals concerned.

Posted on 4 Jul 2010 12:29:01 BDT
J. Turner says:
agreed, damaskcat. Rape is about power over... I also have friends of all ages and abilities, and I don't mean on Facebook! Gender doesn't really come into it either. My husband is several years younger than me, we've been married 22 years. There were instances when I am sure we faced criticism because he was young and gorgeous and I'm disabled. Personally speaking, I've had relationships with older men but frankly, they just try to dominate - I didn't need it then, and I certainly wouldn't put up with it now!

In reply to an earlier post on 4 Jul 2010 12:52:23 BDT
Damaskcat says:
Jayne - I agree with you that some older men do try to dominate though one in particular I was friendly with for about 10 years because he didn't try and dominate me.

I think there are more relationships out there with large age gaps than we think. I can remember doing a straw poll amongst a few work colleagues and we found that all 4 women had partners/husbands who were considerably younger than them and that 2 out of the 3 men had wives/girlfriends who were older than them. It was the man who had a younger gilrfriend who thought older women/younger men was yukky and not something he would ever consider!!

Posted on 4 Jul 2010 13:09:41 BDT
J. Turner says:
damaskcat - it also occurs to me that the domination thing (and my distaste for it) was in part due to disability - a warped variation on the 'does she take sugar 'theme maybe? Anyway, not to digress too far, I also think there are large age gap relationships nowadays, I have one male friend with a younger girlfriend (about 10 years between them I think) and a few female friends with much younger men. This might be seen as society changing, women being more independent re: earnings, cars, housing, less children etc, and younger men being more easy going, sharing chores, or brought up to think domination or even violence isn't the norm. Though strangely, I notice that it's still the men (both older and younger) who bring the flowers and chocolates and worry about going dutch...

In reply to an earlier post on 4 Jul 2010 14:54:42 BDT
Damaskcat says:
yes - I know what you mean about the 'does he/she take sugar?' thing because my partner uses a wheelchair when he has to walk any distance. In fact we stopped shopping in supermarkets because of the rude comments he used to get such as 'do these people really need to come shopping?' I now do the shopping on the internet and have it delivered.

I think things are changing and I think it's partly because women have changed and are still changing. Some men still haven't moved on and realised things are different now :-)

In reply to an earlier post on 4 Jul 2010 16:33:10 BDT
Last edited by the author on 5 Feb 2012 13:45:30 GMT
Would you want your twenty year old daughter in a full-on friendship with an incestrous man - The incest bit might make a difference?
Everything is about more than just the one thing! If rape were never about sexual gratification (it`s also about control) there`d likely be more beatings, it`s easier, and fewer rapes(?) This is my view anyway.
It isn`t simply a girl on one hand and an older man on the other, but what I`ve addressed is just how I believe it to be working in this area. General age discrimination does not behave in the same way, and neither do "working friendships"
Regard all people as the individuals which they truly are!
There isn`t much/any discrimination over a mere ten years, and many teens would jump at it!
If the lady be the significant older it`s possibly a little opposed to nature, this because more of the feminine characteristics tend to decline earlier than the masculine characteristics do for men, statistically I think, but it might prove more positive over life span. This in the unlikely event the relationship lasts that long. Lifespan isn`t a concern of natures/for innate drives.
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