Callous dog breeders.

When our first lab was 8 months or so old he was diagnosed with elbow displasia. We were referred to a specialist whose first idea was to chop that leg off.(that would stop him limping I suppose!!) We'd only had one leg checked so don't know if there's a problem in the other one, he only limps a bit if he has a really good race around. My main point though is that a friend? who breeds gundogs told me I should take him back to his breeder to be destroyed as he was not "fit for purpose" . Obviously we didnt do it but I wonder how many dogs do get destroyed for this reason? He is kept slim to help his joints and has Cosequin daily. One vet suggested cod liver oil but the weight piled on so that had to stop. Do these breeders do this culling on a regular basis just like we others change our socks!!!

My first dog was a golden retriever, his breeder ensured all her dogs were "hip scored" for this sort of dysplasia and tested for an eye condition to do with the retina because retrievers had those faulty genes back then, forty years ago. I did not think at the time what happened to any that tests showed had either problem but suspect they were humanely euthanised as very young pups. When you see the awful suffering of some breeds, especially cavalier spaniels, when genetic problems have been bred in rather than out, it makes it hard to decide what is humane and what cruel. I have only had rescue dogs since, cross breeds. Healthier, and moral dilemna free.

Denise, my dog has displacia also and limped. We give her a cod liver oil tablet daily along with arthri-aid and the limp dissappeared. It did take about 6 weeks to do so and we were almost giving up when suddenly it went and hasn't come back. Amputation is pretty extreme and I'd be way of a vet that suggested it as a first measure.

As regards putting dogs down, far too many people consider it acceptable to put healthy dogs down, sadly.

I was given a westie (about fifth-hand, poor little bugger) and she initially had no end of problems with her skin and coat, and (unusually, as far as I am aware) her teeth. She had also had the top of one of her ears chopped off. The vet's opinion is that she was a puppy-farm product, and was probably caked in poo when they came to pick the pups out to sell, and they just chopped the filth off her, taking the ear with it! She was as nervous as all get-out when we got her, and terrified of men - my husband and sone couldn't come into the room without her throwing herself under the settee, and it took a long time to get her settled. We've had her seven years now, and she is a delight, but still the most anxious little dog I've eve had, and I've had a few.
Some of these breeders want shooting.

In the past a number of big breeders put puppies with health issues to sleep but, depending on the condition the practice has declined. I've not heard of a dog with ED having the leg amputated but I guess it does happen. Mild ED sometimes resolves itself in the large/giant breeds as they mature, as the growth plates (at the end of the bones - the part that grows) close (stop growing) at different times. Hip and elbow scoring does not occur until a dog is over 12 months of age and a breeder would not normally know if a very young puppy has got a problem, as young puppies do not move true enough for it to be seen until they have left for their new homes. With the large and giant breeds late maturity it is never advisable to neuter a dog too young as it has been found in some studies that if the neutering takes place before all of the growth plates have closed this can caused Hip and elbow displasia problems although many vets will still tell you to neuter at an early age

I agree wholeheartedly with your comments about early neutering. My daughter has a great dane pup, and the vet has suggested castrating him at 6 months (he is five months now). She's told the vet that the earliest she'll be considering it is a year, and that will depend on his development. We have seen some very scrawny and straggly-looking dogs, and are sure that it is because they have been castrated too early, and have not had a chance to fill out.

'Return to breeder' fortunately does not always result in a death sentence. I was looking at my favourite SBT rescue site and they have a dog in a the moment that was returned to the breeder at 9 months (!), and the breeder took the dog to the vets for death, but the vet contacted the rescue to take the dog, which of course they have.
So yes, the breeders can be as callous as can be, but I am sure s/he was happy to save a few £££ to sign over the dog rather than pay for a lethal injection.

How do they sleep at night eh?

Good breeders will always take a dog back however old he/she is, for whatever reason even divorce etc! I state this on my contracts and, although I've happily never had to, i would do it like a shot! I would try to find them a nice new home but failing that I would keep them as a part of my own family. My ex breeding girls (I only allow them to have 2 litters) live out their lives in my home with me! They, and their puppies are, and always will be, my babies!

In my contract I also insist my new families stay in touch with me, I insist they let me know if they move, I keep in touch constantly via emails and the phone. I send Xmas cards to all my families and receive one back usually with a nice up to date photo of my babies. I would never allow them to go into a rescue centre!

Genetic tests are done on the parents of the puppies but this is not a guarantee that things such as elbow and hip dysplasia will not affect a puppy, only that the parents scores are good and hopefully this will ensure the pups are 'less likely' to have problems. Any breeder stating their pups won't have problems is lying!

These types of problems are not only because of genetics, they can be caused by a number of things including a young pup jumping from a sofa and landing badly causing an ongoing but hidden injury, too much exercise before the pup is fully grown, allowing a puppy to keep its puppy fat rather than losing it by feeding it too much or even playing too strenuously with an older heavier dog. Many cross breeds also suffer from them, although F1 hybrids are least likely to have problems.

It is very true that being spayed/neutered too young is a real problem! A recent study showed that over 75% of those dogs with the problem were spayed far too young...the hormones that grow muscle strength are cut off before they have done their job therefore the joints don't 'sit' together correctly.
I always advise my new families to wait until a girl has had 2 seasons and a boy until he has been cocking his leg for at least 2 months before neutering.
In fact castrating a puppy/dog has recently been shown to dramatically increase his chances of prostrate cancer when older, increases other types of cancer and increases behavioural problems. An intact male is much more sure of himself and doesn't feel the need to assert himself as much. Once a male has been castrated they, and other castrated males, often try to mount each other which causes anger issues all round.

As an aside if you have 2 intact males who do fight (almost always because they come from the same litter...I never allow any of my new families to buy 2 pups from the same litter) then you should castrate the least dominant dog...most do it the wrong way by castrating the dominant dog only to find the problem gets worse. The dominant dog now has to work even harder to dominate and the more submissive dog is suddenly thrown into being the leader, something he certainly doesn't want to be.

Salmon oil is better than cod liver oil for joints btw, I feed all our dogs and pups raw food (BARF) with some added salmon oil and raw grated veg for vits and they do brilliantly on it.

I'm glad your dog didn't have his leg cut off...what an odd thing for a specialist to say :o/
With care many dogs with these conditions can lead normal, active lives.

Well said C Spurgeon

Put dogs to sleep in order to stamp out health issues??? I'm sorry but thats stupid on so many levels. First of all most breed related health issues are genetic so really putting the pups to sleep doesn't solve the problem because it will have been the parents carrying the bad genes. Second, if a dog produces pups with health issues or the dog itself has health issues common sense says don't breed from that dog. And finally, just because something hasn't been seen for a while doesn't mean it won't come out in later generations.
If breeders don't want health problems then they should add different breeds into the mix to strengthen the line, as well as not breeding solely from so called 'champions'. I also think neutering is the best way to go if you know a dog has health issues that can be passed on, it's not fair to the dog or the person buying the animal.

Well said, indeed!

What breed are your babies?

Something to be said for buying from breeders who elbow and hip score. See the paperwork.... Don't politely take anyones word for anything. When ever you're buying a pedigree dog do your homework the way you would for a car. Look into any hereditary diseases your chosen breed might be prone too and make sure you go to a breeder who is testing for those conditions where testing is available. Breeders can't exclude every illness a dog might get but you should at least minimise your risks by going to someone who does their best not to breed on from affected dogs.

So true GMP. Its such a shame more people dont take the time to do their homework and only buy from reputable breeders who do all of the relevant tests

I'm still picking my jaw at the floor at Lazy Kipper's story about the ear being chopped off because it was coated in poo! And the casualness that vets and others suggest that healthy dogs be put down because of some defect just astounds me. I have a 9 month old rescued beagle whom we took in after a family had decided that he was too much to cope with. He had been bought as a late Xmas present for two young children both under the age of five. They had purchased him from a breeder who sold him to them at the age of FIVE weeks! His explanation was that he was moving abroad and had to get rid of his 'stock' ASAP. Months later, I'm still furious!!!! If this person knew he was planning on moving abroad then he should have put his business in order long before - after all, it takes ages to sort out emigration and he had plenty of time to find good homes for his dogs. I'm convinced that he was yet another puppy farmer because no responsible breeder would separate a pup from his mum and siblings at the age of 5 weeks and they could not have vetted the home that it was sold to because it was absolutely chaotic! I'm furious to think that this person is now probably setting up another breeding farm in another country and I only wish I had their details because I would not hesitate to inform the authorities and hopefully have him banned from ever breeding dogs ever again. Thankfully, our pup doesn't have too many problems but those problems that he has we think are due to his being taken away from his mom and dad and siblings and not having had the opportunity to socialize properly with other dogs and to learn 'appropriate' behaviour from them. Makes my blood boil!

Callous dog and cat breeders and scum owners should be disposed of. I would cheerfully do the job, for nothing.

Although this following address is an American site, puppy farming is a world wide problem.

I have had this as my signature on emails for approximately 16-17 yrs

Please add to yours, every little bit helps

puppymillrescue.com

It is an heartbreaking site but one that I believe everyone should visit

Maxine - thank you so much for alerting people to this terrible, terrible practice! I knew puppy mills were horrific, but I had never seen pictures: they will haunt me, and rightly, because we all need to be ware of what is happening so that 'pet lovers' can get a ready supply of puppies.

These are LIVES, for heaven's sake! We're not tailing about a toy that can be stuck in a cupboard, or passed on to someone else when the kids are bored with it (though many poor dogs are, of course). How can anyone look at such suffering and just see it as dollar/pound signs? - these people are vermin, and the authorities appear to be unwilling or unable to deal with them effectively. I'm lying here in my nice warm bed, with a 20 year old cat on my knee, and my second-hand westie snoring on the pillow beside me, and all I can think about is the pain that mankind, as a species, bring to the world.
I have never condoned violence, but in the case of this sort of 'human' filth, I would cheerfully cram them into one of their own cages, and let THEM eat cockroach-ridden food, drink sewerage contaminated water and sleep. eat and live in their own filth for as long as they had done it to the poor creatures in their control!

Hi LK , all I want is for people to put that address as a signature in their emails. That way the message gets spread. The more people are educated the better, and the sooner this horrendous attitude to living creatures is stopped. I only use FB for stuff to do with animals, signing petitions etc. tbh I don't actually understand how it works so as far as I am concerned its just for helping & spreading the word ;D incidentally I wholeheartedly agree with how these human excrement should be treated. But you know what would happen, the bleeding hearts would want them to be understood & treated. I say NO - let them suffer for the same length of time that they have been making money off the suffering & misery of these creatures that man has made dependant on us.

We bought a puppy Lhasa Apso in 2009 in Aberdeen he was just beautiful and we were over the moon with him but as time went on we discovered that he had problems with his mouth he needed to have a tooth taken out at five months ,and as time went on his adult teeth came and then the real problem started his bottom right canine tooth started to grow out over his top lip so we took him to our vet and he said that our puppy needed to see a specailist in North Berwick (which is about a 3-4 hour drive from our home)we went to see this man and he told us that our puppy (who was only eight months at the time )needed root canal treatment ouch which ment having the top of his tooth taken off to allow this work to be done .We informed our breeder (as told to by the dental vet )only to be told so what ,later that year her partner told us over the phone if there was a problem with the puppy we should have had the fxxxxxg thing put to fxxxxxg sleep.We tried everwhere to get some kind of recource but no-one would do anything to this terrible breeder .Her name is Mrs Rhona Ried of cove Aberdeen

i got my leonberger at 2 years old from a "breeder" as she "wanted her to find a good home". i was shocked and appalled at the state of her. basically as she is the runt of the little she is unable to be bred from without causing her death or the puppies so her answer to this....lock the poor dog out in the garden for her whole life. no toys, no walks and no social contact. she was a wreck when i took her in. luckly i had a lot of time and money and knocked the price down to tenth of what leo puppies go for. the vet was disgusted by her, she was bones and missing over half her teeth ( she has 17 she should have 42). ive payed out over £2000 for vets bills in the last 6 months to have most things corrected and now we are working on her manners around people and dogs as is very excited to see anyone. ever. The moral of the story is if you love that dog, dont give it back and only put it down if its in pain and there is nothing that can be done to save it. its disgusting that these people get away with things like this (and illegal docking for some breeds) i would never give up my baby even if she is costing me a fortune because i know she will always have a much better brighter happier future with me.

I wish there were more people like you.
Our dogs are our 'fur-children' - when we get them, we have them for life. That is what you undertake when you take on the responsibility of any pet, but especially one as sensitive, loving and dependant as a dog.

Did you report this breeder? She sounds a monster. It's really hard to get successful prosecutions, but your vet report might have carried weight. I hate to think she might be doing the same to other dogs.

Anyway, I hope that you and your dog have many happy years together - she has fallen on her paws at last and I know from experience that a dog who has had no love, when s/he gets the chance to have a good home repays their people a 1000-fold. You are both blessed with each other.

Unfortunately there are a lot of unscrupulous people out there who live off our emotions. As long as we continue to buy puppies from puppy farmers and back yard breeders they will continue to produce litter after litter of unsocialised, unhealthy dogs.
The only way forward is for people to REALLY do their homework before buying a pup. Always make sure ALL the relevant health checks are done on both parents and only the ones that pass these health checks get used for breeding purposes and always go and see the mother and the pups in their home environment before buying.
On the very rare occassion I have a litter, I will always go and do a homecheck on any potential puppy purchaser or if I am unable to go myself I will ask a good friend to do it for me. I will always take one of my dogs with me then that way, I can see how the person who is hoping to get one of my pups copes with a dog in their home environment and how their family, especially small children react around a dog. I will always get the buyer to sign a contract and one of the conditions on the contract are that if they cannot keep the dog for any reason it is to be returned to me.
If you are thinking of buying a dog, please think about these things and if the person you are hoping to get a puppy from does not do most or preferably all of these things, turn your back and walk away and find someone who cares enough about their dogs to do them!

You can't tar all breeders with the same brush. Most of us are caring and principled people who would be devastated to find that we had breed a puppy with a genetic issue.

Part of the problem is that potential owners look on buying a puppy as they would a commodity and go for the lowest price rather than the best quality from a reputable breeder.

Another issue is how the puppy is then treated when they go to their new home. We always advise our new owners not to over-exercise their puppies as the joints are not set properly until they are at least a year old and can easily be damaged through inappropriate exercise including running up and down stairs, jumping on and off furniture and having balls/sticks/frisbees thrown for them.

Our puppies leave us fully checked out by our vet, inoculated and with 4 week's free insurance cover from the date of purchase. We are always available to help new owners and stipulate that if they need to re-home the dog for whatever reason we will either help to find a good new home or have the dog back to live with us.

I am sure that you are right that many genuine breeders DO care what happens to their puppies - they love the breed and are interested in improving the health and standards - but sadly many regard puppies as a cash crop. I do not regard breeders as being in the same league as puppy farmers, who are the lowest form of life as far as I am concerned, and I agree that many people do look for 'cheap' as opposed to 'healthy' and 'good temperament' (my two criteria), but ironically, puppy farmers rarely sell cheap puppies!

Another aspect of breeding which has also alarmed me, it the proliferation of 'unusual breeds'. Possibly this started with labradoodles, which were deliberately initiated to provide non-allergenic guide dogs, and which then became phenomenally popular because of their temperament and trainability. Now you see adverts for 'rare' puppies - it seems that everyone who wants a few bob for Christmas or their holidays will breed their bitch with any other dog and give it a fancy name - the papers are full of 'chorkies', 'jackahuahuas', 'pooshids', 'staffweilers', 'cockerpoos', 'puggles' etc. I don't doubt that many of these are lovely puppies, and a joy to own, but people are asking (and getting, I assume), hundreds of pounds for what are effectively mongrels, and may have been bred purely for financial reasons without any thought of any health or temperament issues which may ensue. Puppies are now appearing with are advertised as crosses between crosses e.g. puggle x jackahuahua. Hell's teeth - these ARE mongrels! (Please don't think I am against mongrels - I used to have an old english cocker bull doberhound and a wire-haired staffordshire fox poodle myself). But the fact that people are prepared to pay hundreds of pounds for these 'rare' puppies encourages indiscriminate breeding.
I am all for people paying for their dog - what they get for nothing, they often don't value - but I am worried about this tendency to deliberately produce cross-breed puppies without a thought of anything but the cash they will get.

(Just out of interest, Hantslady - what is your breed?)

in response to Hantslady i agree not all breeders are bad. when i was a small girl a friend of my fathers breed dobermans and we were taken round often to socialize the puppies to children as he had none of his own. he wanted all his puppies to be healthy and had them all vet checked and socialized with every situation. some breeders do care and i respect that. I know a few breeders of actual rarer breeds (in england) rather than these cross breeds referred to as "rare". they put the price up so the people dont just buy them as "status" dogs which is also an issue with breeding. there are a lot of staffie "breeders" where i live breeding them on their first season just to make a quick buck which i think is wrong. one of our rescue dogs came previously came from a puppy farm.

Leland is a border collie and the pictures the rescue showed us of what he looked like when they found him made me feel ill. poor boy had glass in his feet and covered in his and other puppies excrement. i do not condone this at all.

anyway im getting off point. I believe honest breeders are getting tarnished with the same brush at the moment which is unfair and people need to do intense research into the breeder by asking constant questions which any good breeder can answer and most will offer advice either for a certain period or for more unusual breeds, for life. they also offer insurance and may even offer a sample dog food and/or comfort items such as a mothers blanket. these are the true honest breeders who do truly care about their dogs and kudos to you Hantslady for being one such breeder.
The last thing is people who only breed for money do not realise they need to spend money themselves. puppies need jabs, flea and worm treatment which cost money but will keep the puppy healthy and even save its life (What with parvo and distemper making a big come back at the moment) i myself have gone to look at puppies and when asked if they have had these things i have had the answer "i dont know" or "i dont remember" these are the people to steer clear from.