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Is Amazon right to exploit our tax system? Are we right to trade with them?

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Posted on 19 Nov 2012 18:20:37 GMT
Last edited by the author on 19 Nov 2012 18:31:04 GMT
I imagine the Government - who don't give themselves any tax breaks, none whatsever, or engage in any kind of tax avoidance, cheat or immorally rob it's citizens of money with expenses claim - will be greatly concerned. The main reason for their concern of course is that that don't have shares in 'zon so aren't coining it in.
Nothing much has been done to stop the tax avoidance of banks and other big business in this country. Noises of disgust are made (by leaders of all hues, not just the blues) because the masses have got wind of it. The disgusted remarks are made with hands over mouth to hid the smug smirks and Promises to put an end to the practise are made with fingers crossed behind backs.
If our leaders look to be genuinely attempting to put an end to 'zon/Starbucks behaviour it purely in order to make sure they get their snouts in the trough whereupon any actions tabled will suddenly disappear.

Wich i meant to say means i feal no compunction to stop dealing with Amazon. They are no worse than the rest of them in avoiding their dues, are doing it legally and as someone mentiopned thay give far better customer service than your average firm

In reply to an earlier post on 19 Nov 2012 17:36:26 GMT
MC Zaptone says:
I'm not sure what you are saying exactly, you seem to be agreeing and saying it's rubbish to boot. What does this sentence mean? "All business creates jobs therefore no business ever to pay tax???"

In reply to an earlier post on 19 Nov 2012 17:32:11 GMT
tellitasitis says:
This is rubbish. All businesses exist to make profit. No profit no business. Profits then tax, unless tax is 100%+ then still profit, still business. All business creates jobs therefore no business ever to pay tax??? If businesses don't pay tax then you have to pay more -s'okay? Bricks and mortar business much easier to target than internet - Starbucks is a sitting duck and should be shot. What about jobs in national as opposed to international companies. Amazon gradually runs them down and more jobs lost in JL than are gained in Amazon.

Posted on 19 Nov 2012 17:21:14 GMT
Sparky says:
Very unlikely that a significant number will stop trading with them I feel; not me anyway, but I may put a little more effort into looking for (cost-effective) alternatives in future rather than just taking the easy Amazon option.
Not really on though to expect the poor punters to act morally/properly tax-wise whilst leaving the door open for large businesses to exploit loopholes is it?
As has been said, if there's a problem get the legalities sorted out to fix it.

In reply to an earlier post on 19 Nov 2012 17:00:42 GMT
Last edited by the author on 19 Nov 2012 17:01:05 GMT
Can't believe you would avoid paying full tax and let your brothers and sisters foot the bill???...You Working Class Warrior you!!...Bet Damon Albarn would be proud of you Schiz!!!!...Lmfao!!!!

Joking aside, where is our " Fair Play" PM in all this???...Surely he has the clout to make them pay or to get the ball rolling at the very least....( Hold on, i voted for him on the strength of a Euro referendum that never happened!!!)...

I wouldn't hold your breath on anything happening people....

Posted on 19 Nov 2012 15:31:45 GMT
Paul Moss says:
And so say all of us!!!!

Posted on 19 Nov 2012 14:09:05 GMT
Corporation tax is essential as it helps pays for public services just as much as personal tax payers could possibly contribute when combined together. You just have to take a look at Ireland and Greece especially to see what happens when countries cut their tax rates too low but continue to spend. They run out of money and then have to increasingly tax a working population that's (mostly) already paying their fair share of tax.

And even if Amazon were taxed fairly do you seriously think they'd abandon the UK market with 60m potential cusomers? I think not...

In reply to an earlier post on 19 Nov 2012 13:05:41 GMT
Carradale says:
Can't quite my head round why the UK government is getting hot under the collar about companies working in the (for the companies involved) most profitable, way within our current tax system.

If it is not how the our tax authorities want it to work....JUST FIX IT.........

If there is no compunction to fix it because there are other benefits....SHUT UP......

Posted on 19 Nov 2012 12:27:36 GMT
MC Zaptone says:
Most companies like to be seen in a good light by their customers and the public in general, so I'm wondering how (and if) Amazon respond.

In reply to an earlier post on 19 Nov 2012 07:50:32 GMT
Red Mosquito says:
However Starbucks are claiming that they lose money on their coffee shops in the UK. I read recently that it cost them 4p to produce a latte. They then used to (I'm no longer a customer) sell it to me for £2.15. The point being that this creative accountancy it easy to achieve if a business is that way inclined. If you load the tax onto the business rate (the square footage of each shop) and abolish tax on profit, the tax can't be evaded. I still buy from Amazon because I've got flexible principles. A bit like those who say "we're all in it together"

Posted on 19 Nov 2012 00:31:52 GMT! If I was running a business and could get round paying tax 'legally' (and let's not forget what they are doing is totally legal!) I'd do the same.
Nicholas, if you are so anti Amazon what are you doing on their chat forum?

In reply to an earlier post on 18 Nov 2012 23:08:59 GMT
Nonsense. Amazon are not 'creating jobs'. In avoiding tax Amazon have a competitive advantage over high street traders and UK-based retailers, allowing them to undercut rivals. This contributes to high street stores going bust, with the loss of jobs. The result is that high street stores which employ people AND pay taxes close and are replaced by Amazon, which employs less people and pays less tax. This in turns means that UK tax payers either have to pay more tax (to cover that which Amazon has evaded), or schools, hospitals and public services are cut. You don't 'save money' by shopping with Amazon, you simply end up paying their share of the taxes indirectly.
I have cancelled my outstanding orders and won't be shopping again until Amazon reforms itself.

In reply to an earlier post on 18 Nov 2012 23:02:30 GMT
Thanks, Lez!

Posted on 18 Nov 2012 22:52:28 GMT
Lez Lee says:
Tax Loopholes

Posted on 18 Nov 2012 22:43:19 GMT
Dear Amazon, please send me some tax loopholes, free delivery, no need for first class postage(unless I can claim it back), yours Smitty Werbenjaegermanjensen.

In reply to an earlier post on 18 Nov 2012 22:20:42 GMT
MC Zaptone says:
Cornish, as has been mentioned close the loopholes and the multinationals will target different marketplaces and the UK will suffer job and revenue losses. A better solution would surely be a completely different form of business tax.

Posted on 18 Nov 2012 19:46:28 GMT
Last edited by the author on 18 Nov 2012 20:00:53 GMT
Johnny Bee says:
This is just another example of politicians' posturing - piss or get off the pot.

Are the said companies breaking the law in any way? - no.
Who can legislate to close the so-called tax loop holes? - why the UK Government of course.
Will they? - very doubtful, for economic reasons that have been touched upon here.
Therefore, will I stop using Amazon, Starbucks et al, on moral or any other grounds for that matter? - not a chance.

Posted on 18 Nov 2012 19:41:14 GMT
mancheeros says:
Yes, better legislation to close loopholes is what we need, and I hope Amazon will listen to the concerns of those who are now asking them to pay their fair share of tax. Having said that, Amazon is one of the best companies I've had the pleasure of doing business with - reliable delivery service and quick to sort out problems with dodgy sellers.

Posted on 18 Nov 2012 19:30:54 GMT
There's a world of difference between tax avoidance (legal) and tax evasions (illegal).

Any tax loopholes are down to legislation or perhaps I should say the lack of it. I'm sure that nobody here would pay more tax than they need to so don't blame Zon, as you would do it if you could. Block the loopholes is what I say!

Posted on 18 Nov 2012 19:06:43 GMT
Red Mosquito says:
Personally I'm not a fan of taxing businesses, mainly because its easy to evade and companies pay people lots of money to find legal loop holes to assist the evasion. I'd recover the lost revenue by increasing business rates but it's in our interest for the likes of Amazon and Starbucks to still want to trade in the UK so we have to be careful not to drive the companies, who employ 1000s of people, out of the country. That famous Indian company Land Rover have just announced that they are moving some production into China. As result of a very generous tax break from the Chinese government. I'll still buy from Zon without losing any sleep.

In reply to an earlier post on 18 Nov 2012 15:33:24 GMT
BonkersBilly says:
Very simple, check out this on the BBC and then decide what you think.

Posted on 18 Nov 2012 14:40:42 GMT
FDJ says:
M.C. the high street is dead or in the process of dying and i don't think that there is any saving it.As for 'Zons tax evasion i can't see much of a problem with it as on the flipside of the coin they are creating jobs in this country and what other company is doing that at the moment.I have no problem with still using them.

Initial post: 18 Nov 2012 14:32:01 GMT
MC Zaptone says:
We don't seem too concerned by their moral dilemma as most here are avid 'Zon customers but multi-nationals have a distinct, and many would argue unfair, advantage over British based companies in that they can't shift profit around. Of course, if the government insists on UK taxes being paid on all profit generated here, many global businesses will simply disregard the UK market-place and concentrate on trading elsewhere, which in turn takes away jobs etc. Given the current cut-backs to vital UK services and the general financial malaise should we be encouraging them with sales? Or are we exactly the same as Amazon, in that, we want the most from our money. If we can't find it cheaper or nearer we will buy it here and hang the consequences and our high streets.
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Discussion in:  music discussion forum
Participants:  18
Total posts:  23
Initial post:  18 Nov 2012
Latest post:  19 Nov 2012

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