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Kindle Paperwhite 2nd edition delected collections


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Initial post: 2 Jan 2014 10:16:35 GMT
JustBCoz says:
I set up my new Kindle Paperwhite 2nd edition with collections and added the books to each collection to match with my existing Kindle paperwhite (1st edition). After having the new kindle for about a week I noticed that 3 of the 9 collections disappeared but the books where then visible on the Homepage. I was luck enough to still have the old paperwhite to use as a guide so I could recreate the collections and put the books back in but would have been totally peeved if I had had to spent even more time not only clicking on every book to add to the collections but even more time working out which collection to put them back in. Now worried that it will suddenly happen again so currently have to hang on to the old kindle for a while or write all the books down.

I have not added any books to the kindle in this time and leave it in airplane mode.

Anyone else have this or know why it may have happened?

Posted on 2 Jan 2014 11:28:27 GMT
There are several threads covering the new Cloud Collection system that Amazon introduced with the last upgrade and rolled out onto paperwhites.

I have no opinion on the topic, but just wanted to reassure you that you are not going mad.

In reply to an earlier post on 2 Jan 2014 11:50:02 GMT
Denis Powell says:
If you turn Wireless on, all the Collections created by your previous Paperwhite should appear on your new Paperwhite complete with all the books listed.

One of the advantages of the new system is that when you get a new device (other than the basic Kindle) you don't have to re-create your Collections. It only works if you use Wireless on a regular basis.

Another advantage is that you no longer need books on the Kindle in order to have them show in Collections. I have around 800 books that I wish to read again. Previously, they would all have had to have been on the device to see them listed in the Collection. Now, all of them are in the Cloud but still showing in the Collection, freeing up a huge amount of space on the device. I used to keep a separate list, now I don't need to.

In reply to an earlier post on 2 Jan 2014 12:51:55 GMT
JustBCoz says:
LOL Thank you Combat, I will check them out.

In reply to an earlier post on 2 Jan 2014 13:23:48 GMT
JustBCoz says:
This is my third Kindle, the first not being a paperwhite. As you rightly say Denis, when I first set it up it did have collections and books appear, however, it was a total mess. I had duplicate collections but with differing numbers of book in each not matching to the last Kindle. Some collections x3, some x2 and some missing all together. Even books I have read and deleted from the last kindle reappeared on the new one. A ton of deleting and sorting left me not convinced that I could call the new system an advantage so far.

I have about 250 books on my Kindle and so am happy to have them loaded rather than visible poking their heads out of the cloud. When I have read a book I delete it from the Kindle. If I ever want to read a deleted book again I was happy to know I could always reload from my Amazon account. On the older version paperwhite to remove a book just entailed selecting the option to remove from the device. Now, a little annoyingly, I have to remove from the devise AND deselect it from the collection. Another advantage of the new system? So far this new software has only added more work to the management of my Kindle than actually adding anything. Which reminds me of another irritating step I now have. When I read a book I put it into a collection called 'reading' so whatever happens I can always find my way back to that specific book. Now when I add a book to the collection I get a message telling me my WiFi is off. Why should I care that it is off when all I am doing is logging a book that is already on my kindle against another collection?

I am now very aware that I really to need find out more information about how the cloud is specifically operating in conjunction with my Kindle. I would be hoping that my Kindle would be controlling what happens on the cloud and not the other way around.

All that said I still, back to the initial problem, do not understand how the collections got deleted when I was not on WiFI and purely reading a book. I have remembered now that when I noticed the collections gone that my Kindle had come out of airplane mode without my help as I always keep it in airplane mode when not downloading new books.

In reply to an earlier post on 2 Jan 2014 13:23:58 GMT
Check to see if your PW 2 has firmware version 5.4.2.

If it has it will automatically load all collections you have set up on any device previously - assuming that the device has been synced.

If it hasn't - then you MUST leave wireless on until it gets updated. It is a good idea to leave wireless on all the time - it has negligible effect on battery life.

Home screen - top right three bars
Settings
Three bars
Device Info

a box pops up which will tell you the firmware version

In reply to an earlier post on 2 Jan 2014 13:53:00 GMT
Last edited by the author on 2 Jan 2014 14:22:12 GMT
JustBCoz says:
My new Kindlewhite has version 5.4.2 My old one has 5.3.9 If you are operating multiple Kindles from one account why would you want all the other kindles information massing together on to the new one? I would have been happy if I could have got a clean copy of my previous Kindle but being given the choice to select which Kindle you want to sync to would have made sense to me. I have never selected the sync option on any of my Kindles and after seeing how the new kindle managed its set up (see previous post) I am not brave enough to try it to see what happens.

I have just downloaded 28 (free) new books to both paperwhites. The initial one.click purchase was to my new Kindlen paperwhite and then I selected to so an additional download to the old paperwhite from the confirmation page. The old paperwhite has now got them all sitting on the homepage ready to be added to my collections. The new kindle has done diddle squat. Any ideas on how to get to them?

Posted on 2 Jan 2014 15:01:31 GMT
JustBCoz says:
OK so I have 'found' my new books on the Cloud. I have to now download them (because I want them on my device) and then add them to a collection. One step on the KW1 and two steps on the KP2. Anyone see a pattern forming here.

In reply to an earlier post on 2 Jan 2014 16:14:03 GMT
Denis Powell says:
I have a number of family members using my account, each with their own Collections prefixed by their names. I find the new system works very well for me but that may be because I'm trying to work with it rather than fight against it.

Any time a feature changes some of the ways you work with it have to be amended. I don't spend a huge amount of time on the Home page and because all my Collections were listed on the new device, complete with books, I didn't have to do anything at all other than download a book to read.

I appreciate that you don't like it, probably more than I didn't like the previous system. I don't like Windows 8 but when I had to have a new Laptop I learned to make the most of it and forget about what went before. If you're always going to be thinking back to what happened in the past I think you'll never be happy with the Paperwhite.

In reply to an earlier post on 2 Jan 2014 17:39:00 GMT
JustBCoz says:
It is not about fighting the system in the least. My initial issue is that for no apparent reason 2 of my collections disappeared without rhyme or reason which I can but hope is a reasonable expectation to not be a standard process of the system.

The fact that to add a book and delete a book now requires extra time and processes with the new software is just plain annoying but again not an issue of me fighting against the system. It IS the change between the old and new system. The Kindle is a book reader that can hold a huge number of books so why should it be considered fighting against the system to expect to be able to download and delete books to and from it without expecting that process becoming more inconvenient in new developments? The cloud reading functionality is an added function and not a replacement for its book storage functionality. If its sole use was as a cloud reader then it would be advertised as such.

Would it make sense for a developer to say that 'what it was originally designed to do and is STILL advertised to do is a whole lot crappier but look at the new funky thing it can do now as well! You should not complain about the standard functionality being make more clunky as you have been given the funky thing in the hope you did not notice'?

If all software developers where right to not look back then nothing would move forward and I actually really prefer Windows 8. I am a lover not a fighter :)

Posted on 2 Jan 2014 17:48:04 GMT
It is very strange the books you sent direct to your PW2 when you bought them (by selecting the new devices name underneath the BUY NOW WITH 1 CLICK button - unless i have misunderstood you) didn't download automatically, they certainly do on mine and appear at the end of all the collections (mine is organised by collections, not recent, title or Author), the only books i need to go to the cloud for is ones i have sent to my other devices first off and haven't sorted into collections, and can't be bothered with using the manage my kindle on the website...maybe contact amazon and see if they have any advice about this...

In reply to an earlier post on 2 Jan 2014 18:20:06 GMT
Denis Powell says:
For a long time customers have been complaining that when they got a new device they had to download all their books and then import Collections to have their books show in Collections. That problem has been addressed. Now they don't have to download all their books, or indeed any books.

Many people have more books in their account than can be download to any device so they weren't able to make full use of Collections and had to organise their libraries off the device. Now they don't have to.

Many people complained that they couldn't have Collections on a Fire. That too has now been addressed.

So, Amazon were being criticised for certain shortcomings. Those shortcomings were addressed and now people complain because they've been addressed.

I don't understand why people want thousands of ebooks on their devices. I read an average of 200 books a year but I'm never away from WiFi long enough to need thousands to select from. I have those in the Cloud.

I understand you're not happy but I can't help that I find it easy to add and remove books from Collections or th a t I find it easy to locate books within the Cloud Collections of I want to download one.

In reply to an earlier post on 2 Jan 2014 18:45:52 GMT
Books are downloaded onto a device during a sync. If you have never synced then they won't download. To not sync means you have not got wifi switched on. Therefore your books are in the cloud. If wifi is switched on then you need to sync. Sometimes it takes a while for the device to perform an automatic sync.

If you do have wifi switched on and synced, then you've done something wrong, most likely, as I have never had that problem with my PW 1 and PW 2 nor with items I have just tried.

In reply to an earlier post on 2 Jan 2014 19:02:43 GMT
JustBCoz says:
Thanks Miss R. Smitten, you did not misunderstand, it was using the BUY NOW WITH 1 CLICK button. Nice to know that there was something strange going on.

In reply to an earlier post on 2 Jan 2014 19:23:33 GMT
JustBCoz says:
I Know My Place, when you say 'during a Sync' are you saying I have to use the sync option in the settings menu? That is something I have not done admittedly. I am a little sync shy after the fear of having to sort out all my collections again after the work involved when I first tuned it on and did the setup. Never actually used that sync option on my KW1 and books downloaded fine everytime.

This was my fist purchase/download on the KW2 so wanted to use my KW1 as back up and a reference. I turned both the KW2 and KW1 on and ensured both had WiFi on. I selected the KW2 when BUY NOW WITH 1 CLICK button and then selected an additional download to KW1 with the option on the receipt page for each book. The KW1 downloaded all 28 books very quickly but after more than 30 minutes I had still not received one book on the KW2. I found them on the cloud and downloaded them from there.

Maybe it was not long enough to wait as I only had my KW1 to gauge it by. It may just be that the download to the KW2 was having a bad day but I don't know how I can tell if it was that or a problem. I will do another test tomorrow. I have never had a problem with my KW1 and hopefully know what I am doing it by now. As said though, it was my first try with the KW2.

Does anyone know if it is totally possible that the time differences can happen without there being a problem with KW2?

In reply to an earlier post on 2 Jan 2014 19:28:23 GMT
CBRetriever says:
actually, they're PW1 and PW2

In reply to an earlier post on 2 Jan 2014 19:44:56 GMT
Last edited by the author on 2 Jan 2014 19:49:34 GMT
JustBCoz says:
Sorry Denis, but I am getting a little confused and don't want that to give you the wrong idea about what I am saying and so annoy you unintentionally. I really can't comment on what customers have complained about in the past as I have not been following it. All I can say I have been totally happy with KW1. Never took any notice of the cloud icon because it was 'doing just what it said on the packet' already. The only reason my husband bought me the KW2 was because I had made a comment about the new function to page back but keep hold of the current page...and he had no other ideas for a present.

I am more than happy to accept any help you can give me to make the cloud work and stop me being miffed at the additional clunkiness added to the current way I use the Kindle. I have just not been able to work it out myself so far.

So.....basically I currently download books and then put them into basic collections ie, humor , Crime, Biography, etc. (Would be nice if they did that automatically based on the Amazon description..one can dream:). This is so I can pick a book to read based on my mood. I don't pick specific book to read but just randomly pick from that collection. I add that book to a collection called 'reading' so I can always find it easily or if I have more than one book on the go at one time. Once I have read the book I delete it so I don't accidentally pick it again.

At the moment when I look at the cloud option on the Kindle I see ALL books I have ever bought for the Kindle but the books I have already read muddy the water. I have not been able to work out a simple step by step process to manage them.

In reply to an earlier post on 2 Jan 2014 19:45:39 GMT
Last edited by the author on 2 Jan 2014 19:46:47 GMT
JustBCoz says:
Sorry, my mistake :) please read PW where I have put KW and I will try to get it right from know on.

In reply to an earlier post on 2 Jan 2014 20:33:22 GMT
CBRetriever says:
no problem, I knewwhat you meant - I just didn't want to confuse others who might read this thread later

In reply to an earlier post on 2 Jan 2014 20:42:10 GMT
Last edited by the author on 2 Jan 2014 20:43:44 GMT
Denis Powell says:
JustBCoz, I'm not the least annoyed. I don't always agree with people's opinions but that's the nature of these Discussions.

I don't use Genre's for sorting purposes as almost all of my books would fit into several but I'm doing all my Collections work in the Cloud as that's where the vast majority of my books are. Anything done in the Cloud will be reflected in the Collection on the Device. I either open a Collection and add books to it (just as I did before the Change) or I go through the list of books and add them to the appropriate collection, again in the same way I did before. The more books involved the longer it takes but it's a once only exercise. If you buy a new device next year, say, you won't have to repeat the exercise.

As I have other family members using the account all my Collections are prefixed by "Den's".

The only thing I'd add is that while I have no problem whatsoever with how you set up your collections, it sounds like you're creating a lot of them. Generally speaking the simpler the cataloguing system the easier it is to work with. I understand what you say about "mood" but mine changes on a daily basis so I usually create a reading list of, say, 30 books across a range of "genres" and then read them at random. I'm a great one for making things simple and quick. That's why I don't want to spend time downloading large numbers of books to any new device or working with large numbers of Collections, but that's just my way of working.

I love audio books, for instance. On my Fire HDX I have the one I'm listening to now and the next one, removing them when they've been listened to, as those too are in Cloud Collections.

In reply to an earlier post on 2 Jan 2014 21:03:03 GMT
JustBCoz says:
I try to be a simplistic person and do only work from 6 collections. I just plump for genres with the mostest and don't bother with cross referencing other than the 'reading' collection. ok, point taken about the mood but it is just the one when it is time to choose a new book to start. I just need that little something to just base that initial choice on.

I am off to bed to ponder on the world of 'cloud' management. Now for a big query. If I go over to the dark side and just work from the cloud do I delete the collections and books from the Kindle so the 'On Devise' is empty except say for the books I am reading? Will all the collections setup already stay put on the cloud? Then when I add new books I can find them on the cloud by selecting 'recent' to then be able to add to collections? I normally do it in batches based on genres. This time when I 'purchased' the first books since the new Kindle they did not download to the kindle even though WiFi was on. If I go with working from the cloud then I guess that is what I would want to happen but was it just a fluke this time? Now even I am confused.

Being a simple gal I am worried I will end up with odd books on the Kindle and a jumble on the cloud :)

Thanks for your help!!

In reply to an earlier post on 2 Jan 2014 21:10:27 GMT
When you buy a book it will automatically download to the first named Kindle in Manage My devices. You do not have to select it.
The book is immediately available in the cloud. Go to your other Kkndle and download it.
This involves the least interaction by you; 1 tap to download on Kindle vs 2 clicks in Amazon.
Go to manage devices and rename if necessary to get the default kindle to download to at the top.

In reply to an earlier post on 2 Jan 2014 21:21:33 GMT
Cloud collection ONLY works on your PW 2. Your PW 1 does NOT support cloud collections so any changes you make on 1 will NOT be reflected on 2 and vice versa.
Therefore keep all your master collections on PW 2.

If you delete a collection on PW 2 it disappears for good - your books, of course, remain in the cloud. Cloud collections don't really care, as they always display, what is in them - whether the book is on device or in cloud.

How you now start to organise your collections will depend upon what you want them to do.

In reply to an earlier post on 2 Jan 2014 21:28:23 GMT
Denis Powell says:
Any change you make to a Cloud Collection will be reflected in the On Device Collection on your 2nd Paperwhite. There's no need to delete them.

If you purchase using the Website the books only download to the device specified in the "Deliver to" box. I suspect that may say your 1st Paperwhite. You can make your 2nd Gen Paperwhite the default device by changing the name in Manage Your Devices so that it becomes the first one alphabetically.

In reply to an earlier post on 3 Jan 2014 09:58:43 GMT
JustBCoz says:
I Know My Place, Thanks for the info about the collections on the cloud on the PW1, funny never noticed it was not there before.

Denis, thank you I will get a grip of this cloud if it kills me. I did a test creating a new collection on the cloud using my PW2 and, wam bam, there it was under 'device' on my PW2. One lesson learnt, thank you. I had noticed about the default being based on the kindle that alphabetically just to prove I am not a totally twerp although hard to believe I know.

Still not got this cloud thing tied down. Starting to worry I am a plonker. Some more question in hope that it makes my light bulb go on.

The first may sound real stupid but am I working from ONE cloud from both of my PW?

If so then why is the number of items in the cloud on my PW1 a different number to that on my PW2? The difference is more than just adding the number of collections which are not showing on the PW1. I don't load anything to either PW other than books purchased from Amazon.

What does the automatic sync actually sync and in what directions does it go? I think I am still missing something fundamental here as you can clearly tell LOL

Am I right in believing that when looking at the cloud and selecting 'recent' on either PW it is not in the order of the books being added to the cloud (purchased) but when something was done to a book or collection ie loaded to kindle or create collection? The books and collections get mixed on my PW2 which gives me that assumptions.

Why is the number of items more when selecting to sort by Author rather than title?

I purchase a book today as another test but that has yet to appear in the cloud or device on either PW as of yet but that was just 15 minutes ago and counting. It does show on my Amazon account under 'manage my Kindle' at least. I am holding off forcing it do device via Amazon.
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Discussion in:  kindle discussion forum
Participants:  7
Total posts:  54
Initial post:  2 Jan 2014
Latest post:  6 Jan 2014

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