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Getting free kindle books off of torrent sites ??

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Showing 1-25 of 263 posts in this discussion
Initial post: 29 Oct 2010 00:11:25 BDT
[Deleted by the author on 29 Oct 2010 00:24:23 BDT]

Posted on 29 Oct 2010 00:22:04 BDT
BarryMaz says:
Put very simply - they are DRM protected on the Amazon store. To take them off a torrent does two things

1. You break the law
2. You feed the pirates, which only leads to yet tighter controls on electronic copy, and, perhaps, a so called justification for higher prices.

You are free to do what you choose, but if it was me, I certainly wouldnt be talking about it on an Amazon forum...

At the end of the day, owning a paperback doesnt entitle you to a free copy of the ebook - in the same way as owning dark side of the moon on vinyl doesnt entitle you to a free copy on CD.

In reply to an earlier post on 29 Oct 2010 00:55:57 BDT
Alice says:
"At the end of the day, owning a paperback doesnt entitle you to a free copy of the ebook"

Why not, for heaven's sake! An e-book is nothing more than the template from which the hard copy version is produced, but without all the costs involved in traditional books - paper, ink, transport costs, warehousing, etc.
A year or so ago, I wanted to buy an academic book that was priced at £80 (!), so decided to buy the e-book instead... until I saw that this was the same price. This is disgraceful! Needless to say, I borrowed it from my local library instead.
Many academic authors have been producing e-books for years. They then go to the publisher, who simply prints them out. There isn't even a postage cost, thanks to email.
This is simply greed on the part of publishers, taking their customers for a ride. I've never illegally downloaded books, music ... anything, but can understand why some people do.

Posted on 29 Oct 2010 01:17:16 BDT
BarryMaz says:
Alice - "why not" - that is a huge topic - the thread was whether he should use a torrent, I personally wouldnt.

As for your points, they are all very valid and sensible - we all agree - but this is the world of business - they can control ebooks and so they will. Open them up and they lose control of them.

I still think my analogy applies though - also the same analogy with films bought on VHS, on DVD and on Blu Ray. I dont get any discount because I bought on VHS - I just buy again and again. We are all mad, and they know it.

In reply to an earlier post on 29 Oct 2010 07:52:59 BDT
Joe says:
"You feed the pirates, which only leads to yet tighter controls on electronic copy, and, perhaps, a so called justification for higher prices."

Thats not what happened with music. It started that way but then the publishers discovered that THEY were feeding the pirates, because their high prices, increasing complex and intrusive and awkward DRM, plus non-availability of legal MP3 versions lead to MORE people pirating. Examples include the Sony published music CD which stealthily installed what was essentially unremoveable malware without even asking for permission, and some companies shutting their DRM servers meaning people lost all their PURCHASED music while obviously if you pirated that music, you didnt !

Yet now, just a few years later, Amazon, iTunes etc etc sell high quality reasonable cost unprotected music. This lessens the need or incentive for people to pirate. Some still do, but they would have pirated anyway, and they always will. There is also no moral argument to fall back on for thsoe who 'might' pirate, they cannot say "well they don't sell it as MP3 so they arent losing any money" (I'm not saying this is a valid argument, merely stating what happens)

And since all of that happened with music when download speeds were maybe 10% of what they are now, and music perhaps 10x larger than books (so you can download an ebook now in 1% of the time of an MP3 10 years ago) the same will inevitably happen with books. Indeed the only reason books is happening 10 years later than music is that low cost portable music players came into existence 10 years earlier than low cost portable ebook readers.

Posted on 29 Oct 2010 09:32:44 BDT
Last edited by the author on 29 Oct 2010 09:40:45 BDT
Halo572 says:
I don't understand how downloading a free file of any kind feeds pirates. What is it feeding them if they are not making any money out of it? There are the Russian MP3 sites where they don't pay copyright, so if you BUY a track from them (more fool you) then you are giving them physical currency and is worth their while doing.

Any free file that doesn't generate income through clicking on it, if that is possible, has no benefit to the uploader unless they are using it as a vehicle for a trojan/virus etc. Likely it is just the nature of the Internet where people share things for no other reason than they can.

I don't buy/get pirated copies of anything, waiting until they are the price I want to pay for the original even if it takes years to get to it or getting it off ebay second hand. I only buy electronic media when they are on offer or I have some sort of voucher, such as with the Becks free MP3 offer at the moment. I bought the Becks Blue 6 pack at £2.50 and got 6 tracks free, or in reality for 41p each. Can't complain at that and each track saved me 38p/48p, which I am happy to pay for. I got 16 tracks this way, saving up £7.00 and have 18 bottles of non-alcoholic beer to drink as well which doesn't bother me.

What did annoy me is that a) I downloaded a wrong version of one song with a very slight difference in name (4 and not IV) and just deleted it, wasting a voucher, b) got a different version to another and I am not sure how to get the one I want, c) can't get the version of another that is on Youtube. 30 seconds is not enough to preview a track and I have made mistakes over the years that you cannot get refunds on and that is free money for the retailer, music company, artist, etc.

In the case of Kindle books, the likelihood is that a physical second hand copy is much cheaper even with postage or a new, old release copy the same with free postage. I don't care if I have an e version or not, a cheap second hand copy in good condition is preferable simply because my criteria is price not media form.

Posted on 29 Oct 2010 09:53:15 BDT
Highwayman says:
Well, in my opinion @Andy has accurately reflected what happened with MP3's. DRM stiffled the development of the market for years and probably is responsible for the appearance of such Torrent sites like Piratebay, who were (and still are) extremely popular.

Posted on 29 Oct 2010 10:06:53 BDT
BarryMaz says:
Pirate was perhaps the wrong word.

I would have thought though that so long as books are being illegally traded, that provides no encouragement for publishers to reduce prices. ? I'm not sure

Either way, in response to the op. It's illegal, I wouldn't support it, and you have no entitlement to an ebook as you own the paperback

Posted on 29 Oct 2010 10:09:09 BDT
Dennyboy says:
Its been toasted as a subject this one, i agree with everything Paul says and you can say all you like you think you shoulkd get free e-bboks because you own a paper version but its not going to happen and if i was Amazon (a business to make money) i wouldnt do it and cant see why they would either.

Posted on 29 Oct 2010 11:39:36 BDT
Donato says:
There are some who will not pay regardless of price who will delight in getting something for nothing. Those of us who live in the real world know that nothing is for nothing at the end of the day.

Pirate downloading can never be justified but some of it is driven both by the belief that profiteering is taking place plus the onerous controls in place for the benefit of the seller not the purchaser. For instance the very in my view condescending proposed ability to "lend" someone a book.

It seems it can only be lent to a fellow kindle owner, you cannot read that whilst it is on their kindle, fair enough I suppose, lend a book and you cannot read it, and there is a limited time frame imposed, not by you the person who purchased the book but by Amazon. I can understand a time limit of sorts as you could read it and give it permanently to someone, not what they want at all.

The lending issue can be overcome in a far better way IMO if they let you password protect your kindle but let you make an exception, for instance the book you want to lend. Sure it means you are having to lend your kindle, but at least you are in control of the novel you have purchased not Amazon. More chance of it being lent to a non kindle user and increase sales for them and it being your precious kindle you will be very selective to whom you lend it whereas there system it would be lent out more frequently I reckon. Win Win for me...I am in control not Amazon, just like I have with a real book, and it also has benefits for them.

The other issue is this perceived profiteering. Lots of cheap books on Amazon I know but I see it as a sprat to catch a mackerel. At bottom people will I believe be content to pay rather than pirate if they feel they are getting value for money and often that appears not to be the case. It is taking a while I feel for industries to get to grips with the digital format and to get to a trading stance that suites both them and the customer.

Posted on 29 Oct 2010 12:54:56 BDT
Damaskcat says:
Personally I wouldn't lend my Kindle - or any other electronic device - to anyone.

As for pirated books - why would anyone want them? If you buy paper books what's wrong with buying e-books? After all no one's complaining that you can get some e-books free that you have to pay for in their paper versions.

Posted on 29 Oct 2010 13:00:08 BDT
BarryMaz says:
Good point damaskat.

It's a strange old world really that people assume because something is in an electronic file that they should get it free, software, mp3s, ebooks.

If you bought a hardback book you would be entitled to march into waterstones and demand a free paperback copy

In reply to an earlier post on 29 Oct 2010 13:04:01 BDT
Damaskcat says:
Or trade your hardback in for a paperback - with some money back presumably. Or perhaps the other way round - trade in a paperbaclk for a hardback and pay the difference . . . When you look at it like that you can see the nonsense behind the idea that you should get a reduced price or free -ebook.

But as you say people have the idea if it's an electronic file it should be free as it cost someone nothing to produce. Can't see why people think e-books cost nothing to produce anyway.

Posted on 29 Oct 2010 13:04:59 BDT
Dennyboy says:
Funny old view some people have of cyberspace and shopping on T'Internet, Damaskat you are spot on turning the argument round i have at least 12 free books from Amazon which are priced at £3+ in paperback and I WANT THEM FREE!!!!! (not really as i live in the real world)

In reply to an earlier post on 29 Oct 2010 13:06:29 BDT
Damaskcat says:
When all's said and done e-books - or paper books - represent very good value for money. How much does anyone spend on an evening out and how many books can you get for that?

In reply to an earlier post on 29 Oct 2010 13:08:53 BDT
Damaskcat says:
Dennyboy - I think my Kindle has already paid for itself - the whole of Dickens, the whole of Anthiny Trollope and the whole of Mrs Gaskell and Jane Austen for less tham a tenner - heaven alone knows how much that lot would cost in paperback. Even then I could have got them free it was just more convenient to download the collected works and pay a couple of quid.

Posted on 29 Oct 2010 13:09:55 BDT
Dennyboy says:
When i get on the guinness on a Saturday and watch the footy round the pub withe the wife, we have a few beers and a curry and spend at least £50. But as i am buying the Guinness i want the Curry free!!!!!!! So i reckon 12ish books i could have a week if i stopped drinking and eating curry (not going to happen though!)

In reply to an earlier post on 29 Oct 2010 13:17:02 BDT
Last edited by the author on 29 Oct 2010 13:17:43 BDT
Damaskcat says:
Exactly! But most people don't look at books in the same light as a night out even though the books last longer

Now that would be a selling point for a pub - drink must be paid for but food is free . . . .

Posted on 29 Oct 2010 13:24:00 BDT
there is a phrase TANSTAAFL - "There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch" - it came about during 30's in good Ole U.S of A .. Bars would advertise free lunches but the drinks were really expensive !!

In reply to an earlier post on 29 Oct 2010 13:25:32 BDT
Damaskcat says:
But it doesn't seem to happen here? yes I'm aware of the phrase . . .

In reply to an earlier post on 29 Oct 2010 13:37:13 BDT
well there are pubs that do "Two meals for price of one" deals so I suppose that the second one is free !! ..

And how much do you need to drink before the food is(h) free?.... HIC !!!

I first saw TANSTAAFL in "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress" By Bob Heinlen

Posted on 29 Oct 2010 13:42:28 BDT
Dennyboy says:
I dont want a free curry really i was making the point that keeps surfacing here, about free or cheap things nothing seems to have a value any more. My beer and curry and footy game with the wife has a value way above what i spend, its something we really like to do after a tough week at work sometimes. Same with e-books because they arent paper and are perceived as electronic files only there is an expectation to get them free or cheap. Never mind someone may have put 6mths of their life into writing it, which is the value.

Posted on 29 Oct 2010 13:53:39 BDT
Last edited by the author on 29 Oct 2010 13:54:23 BDT
I think the pubs/food thing is just a forum discussion going off at a tangent !:-) - it happens ..

your comment re: value of the 6 months writing - I think that sums it up nicely . a lot of people nowadays seem to miss the fact that is the content that they are paying for (or should be anyway) and not the medium on which it is delivered ....

It should be noted that very few (but not none) of the great novels/works of literature have come from non-Capitalist economic environments. Authors need to be rewarded for their efforts ....!!!

Posted on 29 Oct 2010 14:01:26 BDT
P. Harrison says:
I am amazed by how many books are available free from Amazon, let alone from other sites. Free books are still available from public libraries too. People complain about publishers and authors being greedy, but what about greedy consumers who expect everything for nothing ?

Posted on 29 Oct 2010 14:05:24 BDT
Dennyboy says:
JJR the food thing wasnt off topic really, torrent sites are about getting something for nothing the same as a free lunch and you say TANSTAAFL. I was using a metaphor to try and make people see everytime you get something free someone somewhere pays for it, either in increased prices due to reduced paid for sales or in lost revenue and income to buy their own currys round their pub!
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Discussion in:  kindle discussion forum
Participants:  65
Total posts:  263
Initial post:  29 Oct 2010
Latest post:  26 May 2012

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