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Loving the easy refund option!


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In reply to an earlier post on 4 Dec 2013 13:21:15 GMT
Last edited by the author on 4 Dec 2013 18:48:23 GMT
Naomi says:
"I know one or two) who literally make a career of complaining and claiming refunds for all manner of products and services, simply out of bloodymindedness, because they can. I don't think many people admire them for it."

There will always be "one or two" who don't want to pay for anything and will use a system for all they can get from it, I just don't agree with the notion that that makes amazon's return policies unfair. Anything is open for abuse frankly, amazon ARE dealing with serial returners by closing down accounts, so there's really no need to change the returns policy when the majority of us appreciate being able to return the occasional book when we're really not satisfied with it.

In reply to an earlier post on 4 Dec 2013 14:32:18 GMT
No. It is the Distance Selling Regulations that give you 14 days to return things. Unused. In original condition.

In reply to an earlier post on 4 Dec 2013 14:33:34 GMT
Last edited by the author on 4 Dec 2013 14:34:52 GMT
Clagg says:
Sorry, but No, Naomi. You yourself have admitted that you have returned books after you have read them. The fact that you have read them has achieved the objective of that book. Whether you accept what is written is different.

You have no warrant to ask for a refund after you have had the whole meal so why is it OK with a book? As far as I can see you've had the product. You can't justify asking for your money back afterwards.

In reply to an earlier post on 4 Dec 2013 14:38:15 GMT
Ethereal says:
Wonder how wrong size fits into that? You have to try on a pair of shoes, maybe walk a little in them to see how comfortable they are ...
The unused part is interesting with regard to ebooks! Surely Az can tell what pages have been looked at on kindle devices?

In reply to an earlier post on 4 Dec 2013 16:18:17 GMT
Last edited by the author on 4 Dec 2013 19:03:15 GMT
My apologies it is 7 working days from receipt of the item for the DSR.
If you don't sync and download via USB Amazon may not be able to tell how much you've read.

We've grown so used to retailers providing good service that many seem to have developed a rather unhealthy entitlement attitude.

That's why caveat emptor exists.

In reply to an earlier post on 4 Dec 2013 16:24:40 GMT
Ethereal says:
I also think a lot of the "unhealthy entitlement attitude" is down to authors enrolling on the freebie programme; I realise they do this to get onto lists and noticed, and for reviews in the hope people will go on to pay for their books but from what I've read it doesn't work and in fact no one need ever pay for a book again!

In reply to an earlier post on 4 Dec 2013 16:37:33 GMT
Last edited by the author on 4 Dec 2013 16:38:46 GMT
Naomi says:
Don't tell me, tell amazon who have a long list of acceptable reasons for return of a book, including issues with quality. Nowhere does it says that you have to have only read a certain percentage of the book to get a full refund, yet time and time again people here have insisted that it's dishonest to return simply for not liking the book when amazon only accept refunds for accidentally clicking on buy. Maybe that's what people WISH were the case, but there are a whole list of acceptable reasons to return the book for a refund, no one is cheating the system to return a book with a click on unacceptable quality (Doing it time and time again is another matter of course, but something that amazon are dealing with as has already been pointed out)

May I suggest that authors consider selling elsewhere if they object so strongly to consumers getting the refunds that they are more than entitled too based on amazon's mode of doing business. It's a lot harder to get a refund with the Kobo for example or Nook, even with apple's ibooks, no author is obliged to sell with amazon if the easy refund system bothers them that much.

In reply to an earlier post on 4 Dec 2013 16:49:52 GMT
Ethereal says:
Authors who object should certainly act, either lobby Az for change or take their business elsewhere, no point just moaning about it.
As a customer I take advantage of the freebie system but if I were an author I wouldn't subscribe to it.

Posted on 4 Dec 2013 18:33:47 GMT
Ethereal, the freebie program is pretty much the reason I'm not currently writing or trying to sell. It's all game playing, with groups of authors calculating the most productive days to make their books free. Plus, I think a customer seeing a book achieve a certain rank or number of reviews based on its being made free is a con from their point of view. Selling a book is no longer about improving the quality of your writing, it's about knowing how and when to give away most free downloads. That can't be good for the book industry in general or quality of literature in any way. And writing a book is a huge commitment of time and energy simply to play games with it. I daresay I'll return to book writing but just now I'm enjoying pursuing other interests.

In reply to an earlier post on 4 Dec 2013 18:59:58 GMT
Brian says:
Do you get any of the freebies please, Ali? I think Amazon knows that freebie hunting also leads to book buying.

In reply to an earlier post on 4 Dec 2013 20:23:48 GMT
I don't have or want an ereader. Obviously I have a computer app but I prefer to read paper books. However, the general book discussions and chat are quite fun here. So, no, I don't get freebies.

In reply to an earlier post on 4 Dec 2013 20:37:18 GMT
Brian says:
I still see a lot of people reading paper books, they've not gone out of fashion quite just yet. I've still got a fair a few knocking about.

In reply to an earlier post on 5 Dec 2013 07:52:12 GMT
Clagg says:
No, that's not the issue. Spelling and grammatical mistakes is not enough of a reason *if you finish the book*.

The book has held you enthralled enough to finish it. That is enough proof for me, and other readers, that the book was good enough. Whether you enjoyed the book is irrelevant; you enjoyed it microscopically enough to finish it.

As far as I am concerned it is quite black and white; you're being dishonest if you read a book then get a refund thereafter.

Posted on 5 Dec 2013 07:59:56 GMT
Brian says:
It's not just books though, there's loads of free music on Amazon too, they really are quite generous - some lovely Christmas classics have just been added as freebies.

In reply to an earlier post on 5 Dec 2013 09:36:03 GMT
Denis Powell says:
I have a large number of favourite authors, and most of the books I buy are from good publishers so rarely have formatting issues. I'm also lucky that, in the vast majority of cases, I enjoy the books I read but if in doubt I get the sample first.

On that basis the Refund options aren't particularly important to me but I think it's up to Amazon and the Authors to sort out what's acceptable and what isn't.

Aubible, for instance allow you to return an Audio Book for up to a year after purchase simply because you haven't enjoyed it. I've only done that once, and then only after trying the book several times over quite a long period. I just couldn't maintain interest beyond chapter 3. The other 265 audio books I own I've enjoyed and some I've listened to more than once. I always listen to the sample before buying - some readers I simply don't enjoy listening to - and I tend to buy stories by authors I've enjoyed in the written format.

In reply to an earlier post on 5 Dec 2013 09:56:09 GMT
Ethereal says:
Perhaps Az should introduce seperate lists for free and bought books or exclude freebies from the lists, but I expect that would deter authors joining the programme so it won't be considered!
Az are playing both authors and customers, and you can't blame a company for doing that. Nor can you blame customers taking advantage of what's being offered even if it's morally questionable so it's up to authors to put a stop to it if they want change, and that will take courage to bite the hand that feeds them. I think it will happen eventually when authors accept they're going nowhere as it stands and readers will be bumped back to earth but they can reflect "it was good while it lasted"!

Posted on 5 Dec 2013 10:32:10 GMT
Isabella says:
I've never returned a book, however disappointed I've been. Knowing the effort needed to write, I tend to give the benefit of the doubt and let it be. I occasionally post a review or do the direct method of going straight to the author that some e-books allow. Free books allow me to try authors I don't know and some of them have benefited from this when I go on to buy their other work. Some of my 'kindness' is inertia. Reading as much as I do, I tend to forget the poor stuff because I'm already immersed in the next book. My kindle is a boon to me.

In reply to an earlier post on 5 Dec 2013 12:50:25 GMT
In a sense, no, you can't blame people for taking advantage of offers. But I do feel there need to be some industry guidelines and controls - not just on books but on global internet selling generally.

Posted on 5 Dec 2013 13:00:22 GMT
Clagg says:
There are already lots of controls on internet selling. To what are you referring to Ali?

In reply to an earlier post on 5 Dec 2013 14:10:01 GMT
Price matching, discounting, selling second-hand items alongside identical new, probably lots of other things... they're all things that in a physical store benefit the customers nearby, but online - particularly for digital downloads - I feel there should be some controls for all products and all retailers.

Posted on 5 Dec 2013 14:25:26 GMT
Ethereal says:
If I were an author I'm not sure I'd trust digital books anyhow, too easy for readers to pirate and other authors to plagiarise. I do read ebooks but would prefer to put my work out in paperback only.

Posted on 5 Dec 2013 14:38:04 GMT
Last edited by the author on 5 Dec 2013 14:38:16 GMT
Clagg says:
You mention controls for Digital downloads, Ali. To what end would Digital Downloads need to be addressed?

Posted on 5 Dec 2013 15:55:15 GMT
Ethereal - I suppose it depends on a number of factors but when authors were allowed to openly advertise books on these forums it generated a lot of e sales and those in turn generated a fewer number (but I'm sure more than if a book were only in print) print sales.

Clagg - in order that we as customers get some choice in the arts outside of mainstream. And in order that those artists we like can stay in business. Music is in real trouble right now and books could easily go the same way. Even very established musicians/bands are now relying on live performances for their income. It used to be in popular music that you went on tour to promote an album - not to earn a basic living.

Posted on 5 Dec 2013 15:57:20 GMT
Denis Powell says:
For what it's worth, I found this article interesting:

http://criticalmargins.com/2013/12/02/e-book-returns-subscription-model/

In reply to an earlier post on 5 Dec 2013 16:39:47 GMT
Berzelius says:
Very interesting, especially the figures for what people been getting away with (and I use the words "getting away with" advisedly). I must say I have been staggered by the apparent extent of the abuse of Amazon's returns policy - no wonder they are cracking down! Over 2 years I've returned the grand total of 2 books, and I felt slightly guilty each time. Obviously I belong to a time before the current "we want it for free, and we want it now" generation. The unfortunate thing is that the abusers are spoiling it for the rest of us.
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Discussion in:  kindle discussion forum
Participants:  37
Total posts:  143
Initial post:  2 Jan 2012
Latest post:  7 Dec 2013

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