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In reply to an earlier post on 17 Feb 2012 15:07:25 GMT
Clare says:
I think privacy is a valid reason to not want people on the train to know what you are reading. I personally reserve the right to read things I'm not ashamed of, but am private about.

There is a difference between shameful and personal.

In reply to an earlier post on 17 Feb 2012 15:07:50 GMT
Damaskcat says:
I don't see anything wrong with either crime being the subject of a crime novel because it's perfectly possible to have such crimes at the centre of the plot without describing the actual crime in graphic detail. Traditional crime novels do not dwell on the crime itself only on the detection process.

In reply to an earlier post on 17 Feb 2012 15:07:58 GMT
Last edited by the author on 17 Feb 2012 15:09:09 GMT
Daisi says:
Another one was Peyton Place, very subtle erotica much more of a turn on than a lot of the crude literature out there now. Nothing nice for me in base sex with crude talk/pain/and a blatant getting your rocks off attitude.

I dont see anything erotic in rape, incest or sordid fumblings with the young babysitter it would be a definite turn off for me.

In reply to an earlier post on 17 Feb 2012 15:09:54 GMT
Last edited by the author on 17 Feb 2012 15:10:56 GMT
Damaskcat says:
I agree with you, Daisi. Leaving a lot to the reader's imagination can be far more of a turn on than spelling everything out in minute detail.

The sub genre which is based on the idea that women - or men for that matter - actually want to be raped is really awful in my opinion.

In reply to an earlier post on 17 Feb 2012 15:11:13 GMT
Sadly, yes :(

In reply to an earlier post on 17 Feb 2012 15:14:48 GMT
There's a big difference, IMO, between rape or incest being part of a story, or being used to titillate. With fiction that is not erotic, sometimes that might be a fineline judgement, a case of "your mielage may vary", but when it comes to those things being used solely as erotic titillation, yes, I have a problem with it. Something so awful as rape, sexual abuse or incest being used to "entertain", with no value beyond someone getting off to it, sickens me.

Posted on 17 Feb 2012 15:14:49 GMT
Ethereal says:
Rape and incest survivors have had to overcome a lot to break the taboos and get their stories out there, often fictionalised to protect identities. The aim of such novels isn't eroticism and I'm all for gritty realism. It's up to individual choice.

Posted on 17 Feb 2012 15:15:12 GMT
Daisi says:
I think that rape scenes and weird sex need to be in some fiction books as they are very much part of the story, but I find it more than disturbing that people buy erotica books about those subjects, rape,torture, incest etc to turn themselves on, the mind boggles and I dont mind saying I would be very wary of such a person and give them a very wide berth.

In reply to an earlier post on 17 Feb 2012 15:16:26 GMT
I agree completely. I know rape victims - I've seen the effects, I've seen the scars. That anyone would read about a situation like that *for entertainment" disgusts me.

In reply to an earlier post on 17 Feb 2012 15:18:04 GMT
Absolutely: but there is a (usually very) clear difference between someone writing about a traumatic situation, and someone writing about incest because they are trying to turn people on with the idea.

In reply to an earlier post on 17 Feb 2012 15:20:46 GMT
Last edited by the author on 17 Feb 2012 15:21:22 GMT
@Daisi: I totally agree. I think some people read that kind of fiction because they are very damaged, so I would try not to judge, but I would most certainly be wary of anyone who read about rape and incest for pleasure, especially if there was no reason in their background for it.

My problem is generally with the romanticisation of rape or incest - or the implication that women "want" to be raped, or that rape or incest should somehow "entertain" us, in and of themselves. Frankly, that makes me want to vomit, quite literally.

In reply to an earlier post on 17 Feb 2012 15:23:05 GMT
Clare says:
I broadly agree with what's being said here. I don't think illegal, violent acts (after all... rape is a crime of violence not of passion) are a turn on. However I think tiggrie's comment 'That anyone would read about a situation like that *for entertainment* disgusts me" raises other questions.

We've all read books and watched movies about terrible disasters, personal tragedies and trials without a trace of guilt, for entertainment purposes. We all do it all the time.

If by entertainment, you mean masturbation tiggrie, then obviously I can't speak for anyone else and refer back to my original statement that I don't think illegal or violent acts are a turn on.

Posted on 17 Feb 2012 15:24:04 GMT
Amber Lady says:
My question around whether rape and incest would be ok in non-erotic fiction was really regarding if you think that rape and incest have no place on Amazon, where do you draw the line. I have abandoned several non-erotic fiction books for the gratuitous way they have depicted rape, torture, domestic violence and incest, often with erotially titillating detail far exceeding what was necessary for the story, but others have said how well written these books are.

Incidentally research into sexual fantasies has shown that the most popular sexual fantasy for females is a rape fantasy. However it IS a fantasy; having a fantasy doesn't mean you actually want to be raped. Meanwhile the most popular sexual fantasy for men is a control and domination fantasy. As the Americans would say, go figure.

Posted on 17 Feb 2012 15:27:36 GMT
Wammylammy says:
I've never seen books like that aimed to young girls, and if that was the case, then there is something very very wrong.

In reply to an earlier post on 17 Feb 2012 15:29:34 GMT
Last edited by the author on 17 Feb 2012 15:34:13 GMT
H W says:
Come on Damaskcat, equality in the bedroom... that's a tad dull no? :P

That's almost like setting the time of the week too haha.

The weirdest thing is, when I asked a few female friends of mine what type of erotic literature they liked most, they all said it was when the female was dominated and effectively raped.
I can only imagine this is some kind of evolutionary instinct, where attractive males are judged on their strength.

Of course, all my female friends did say that the "rapist" would have to be someone they found incredibly attractive... so I'm not sure if they thought about what it means to be actually raped, which is horrific.

But between two adults, who have agreed, then anything goes in the bedroom.

In reply to an earlier post on 17 Feb 2012 15:32:34 GMT
Clare says:
I heard about this research too Amber. My understanding is that the fantasy rape or domination fantasy is fuelled by a desire to not have to take responsibility for their own sexuality or sexual gratification. It's most commonly found in people who have stressful lives, careers, children etc. i.e. high powered individuals who wish to not have to take responsibility in the sack too.

It's a shame that this escape is related in people's minds to something so traumatic and disempowering

Posted on 17 Feb 2012 15:34:30 GMT
Ethereal says:
An author may intend a different message to what the reader takes from a book and each reader will be different too. I daresay some find Mills and Boon erotic but (the old style) did nothing for me except portray unrealistic relationships.
I wonder if a man would be embarrassed to be seen reading one? Yet men both write and read them!

In reply to an earlier post on 17 Feb 2012 15:34:45 GMT
To be honest, I don't watch a lot of movies/read a lot of books about terrible tragedies or disasters, but I do take your point.

But to be honest, as you say, rape is an act of violence: and no, I don't (can't, won't) watch movies or read books that are about acts of violence for entertainment value. I really struggle to understand anyone who, for example, watches the "Saw" movies. To me, people getting tortured to death is not entertaining - not remotely, not on any level. About the only movie of "acts of violence for entertainment value I've ever seen is "Scream 2", and I hated every second of it and couldn't wait to leave the cinema. I even struggling with "Titanic": not least because people around me in the cinema were _laughing_ when people were falling from the sloping deck into the ocean. It disturbed me beyond belief that anyone would find that funny.

There's a difference, to me (and I realise that this is a "your mileage may vary" issue) between 1) a book/movie etc which has violence or similar in it and 2) a book which glamorises or celebrates that violence, or which uses the violence to titillate. I've read books about victims of rape: but not books which celebrate the crime, but those which talk about how the victim moved on from it and learned to live again. To me there is a big, big difference there... and even in that kind of book, I don't want (and would not find "entertainment value" in) graphic descriptions of the rape itself.

But this aside - and as I say, I know it's very much a "your mileage may vary" situation - I find it bizarre and, indeed, disgusting, that anyone would be _turned on_ by rape/incest scenarios.

We are all sensitive to different issues, and have different betes noirs - I imagine it is related to all sorts of issues such as life experience, empathy, etc - but for me, rape and incest are the opposite of a turn on, and I do find it fairly horrific that anyone would get off to that.

In reply to an earlier post on 17 Feb 2012 15:37:35 GMT
FWIW, Amber, I'd be similarly put off, and would find that exceedingly distasteful/gratuitous.

Posted on 17 Feb 2012 15:37:41 GMT
Wammylammy says:
**Wondering whether to comment or stay out of this conversation** :P

In reply to an earlier post on 17 Feb 2012 15:38:19 GMT
Damaskcat says:
My opinion that's all.

Posted on 17 Feb 2012 15:38:54 GMT
Clare says:
do it Rhian :))

Posted on 17 Feb 2012 15:42:27 GMT
Ethereal says:
"But between two adults, who have agreed, then anything goes in the bedroom."

Agreed.

Posted on 17 Feb 2012 15:43:17 GMT
Last edited by the author on 17 Feb 2012 15:44:06 GMT
Amber Lady says:
One person's normality is another person's perversion. People get turned on by some of the weirdest things but who am I to judge them as long as it isn't illegal?

I may not understand why someone might want to read a book or watch a film about something that I find distasteful but that doesn't mean that I should have the right to stop them reading it unless the publishing of such literature or making of such a film is illegal.

Posted on 17 Feb 2012 15:45:44 GMT
Wammylammy says:
Well said Amber Lady and Mrs Braysher, I am of the same opinion.
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Discussion in:  kindle discussion forum
Participants:  25
Total posts:  130
Initial post:  17 Feb 2012
Latest post:  20 Feb 2012

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