Ex Horror Fan Speaks Out

This is aimed more at the slasher gore fest style horror than paranormal/psychological type stuff. I've come to the conclusion that horror movies and novels based around human torture and misery are utterly contemptible, immoral trash.
It started with Hannibal, picked up pace with American Psycho, and good old Kingy hammered in the final nail with the opening chapter from I think, Duma Key.
It's like in Hannibal, there are these slightly obnoxious chauvinistic guys who treat Clarice badly, and they become the villains as a result. Whereas Hannibal, because he treats her with charm and decency, is a kind of hero. The fact that he tortures and eats people is apparently okay with us the audience. Huh? That scene where he fries and feeds slices of the guy's own brain to him while Clarice grins across the table is so morally reprehensible, and yet as an audience, we're on the side of the monsters just because the guy is an arsehole.
As for Brett Ellis' American Psycho. It's like reader and writer alike are mutually revelling in the lowest and sickest acts imaginable. And again, we're kind of on the side of the monsters, not because of pity as with King Kong, but because we've spent a little time with them and they have some winning qualities to their characters, whereas the victims are either slightly unpleasant, or just anonymous kitchen knife fodder, and so they deserve to suffer dreadfully. Surely to think like this is so wrong, and by buying into it, we're really slumming.
Finally Stephen King, who I really respect, and who wrote my favourite short story of all time, 1408, turned me off gore horror altogether with his vivid, even loving description of a person's arm being crushed, or as I think King puts it, "exploded". To me, it had started to feel as if by reading and watching this stuff I were bathing in blood and gutse, and enjoying the feel of it against my naked body.
Just by using their imaginations in this way, I think creators are really living in the gutter, and inviting us to join them. I've had enough, and so gore horror has become something to scorn along with silly macho gangster movies that use all the same techniques; guy is a bit of an arsehole so it's okay to kick him to death, and then stab him because he's not quite dead while our friends the 'goodfellas' laugh and joke. No thanks, I don't agree anymore.

Chris - if you want to see a film that kind of makes use of this line of thinking go see Man Bites Dog - a film crew following a serial killer. It's very amusing in parts but also one of the most disturbing films I've ever seen.

I think there is an argument for characters like Hannibal being interesting because they aren't black/white good/evil characters. I much preferred Silence of the Lambs film to the book but for Hannibal I found the book far more interesting. In the book Hannibal was, in most ways, someone I would like to be - erudite, well mannered, a man of taste, style and discernement - it was that aspect of that made him horrific, for me.

American Psycho - I never thought of Patrick Bateman as a hero - he always came across as a pitiful broken person.

I very much dislike the 'torture porn' films that seemed fashionable for a while - Wolf Creek was the only one I actually watched (and some of one of the others, I don't remember which). The whole idea just seemed to have no redeeming value, to me.

I'll recommend Niku Daruma to you.

How about A Serbian Film?

Enjoy!

I agree - except abt Goodfellas, which is much more ambivalent than you imply. British horror, particularly, seemed to be having a revival a few years ago, but now things have become more formulaic than ever, as well as more repellent. The first film I saw that really crossed the line into pointlessly nasty was Wolf Creek.

But you don't read the responses to your posts, do you? I feel you may not have fully grasped the principle of 'discussion'...

Just joking don't you know.

I for one don't mind gore in a horror film. However, I am very picky. I won't watch torture porn. For me, horror has to have a supernatural element, nothing that can actually happen or has happened in reality. Ghosts, demons, vampires, werewolves, aliens and zombies are more my thing. Add Jason, Freddy and Michael to that list too.

that's strange, i'm completely the opposite. I hate anything supernatural and monsters at 41yo now, but i did love them as a kid. They are Sci-FICTION to me not horror. I like torture horror but only if it is well made with a good story and character building. i won't watch a movie just for gore sakes. I like my horror to involve humans only and reflect reality without any supernatural world or powers. people to me are the true monsters. zombies, vampires, jason and freddy are as horrific and real to me as Santa Claus.

loved-hostel, saw, martyrs, a serbian film, the woman, i saw the devil, high tension,

dislike-human centipede, the werewolf, twilight, let the right one in, paranormal INactivity

Personally I think you can have horror with or without the supernatural, and vice versa. Ditto gore. What makes something a true 'horror' isn't that, nor is it nasty things happening - it's the characters' awareness and anticipation of those nasty things. A classic horror has at least one 'reveal' moment, where the characters are thinking, 'Oh my God, this can't be happening to me'. And it's the power of that reveal that makes a horror good or bad.

So to me, films that start nasty and carry on that way aren't true Horrors. They're just...Nasties.

@Gille - a good example of this is a film 'mute witness' - it's more of a thriller than a horror, and does contain classic horror tropes - but the scariness and tension comes from the fact that the main character is a deaf mute. It's impressive how much it doesn't need to resort to cheap tricks as a result of the incredible tension this simple twist makes to what would otherwise be a fairly straightforward plot.

In the end it comes down to personal taste. We like what we like. There is no right or wrong answer here. I like a variety of horror as I mentioned before, including slasher movies, but I won't watch torture porn or films depicting cannibalism. That's just me, I fully appreciate and respect the fact that others will watch those type of films and enjoy them the way I enjoy watching my type of horror films.

Cheers, I'll look out for that - if I can get it a bit cheaper than it seems to be at the moment...

Without wanting to get into a debate about art and morality - I agree with Chris' OP rather than with you.

Charlie Stross has a bit at the beginning of one of his books (maybe The Jennifer Morgue), about the relationship between spy fiction and horror, and puts a very good case for a lot of work that is considered to be spy/espionafe fiction to actually be closer to horror, and vice versa. It's done (I assume), kinda tongue in cheek, but does make a good point, I think.

Had a quck google - maybe it's in The Atrocity Archives - theres a bit about it here:
http://www.gordsellar.com/2011/01/29/the-atrocity-archives-by-charles-stross/ (3rd para)

Anyway - I thought it was am interesting parallel.

Again... Taste is subjective. What one person loves/ likes could be revered by another. I love horror absolutely and have watched a lot, new and old. Werewolfs, Vampires etc and while I love the classic monster pastiche I have watched some widely vilified. Hostel, I Spit on Your Grave, Last House on the.. Etc, do I particular like them? Yes and no. Anything done for gratuity's sake is not to my taste but anything with characterization and heart I can watch.

Referring to my early bit. I can fully understand why it might not be to your taste but in the end people like what they like, no opinion will change that. And after all unique tastes make for a fascinating debate,
and truthfully isn't that what drives films?

That's a fair enough statement, can't really argue with that. Thing is, I also agree with Chris OP, which is why I wouldn't watch torture porn.

Well you know i think looking for morality in culture is kind of retarded.Sound like some born again christian.Focus on real life,you know...the corrupt politics,the poverty,why not do some voluntary work rather then arm chair philosophy.
Look out the window.I found Kings Speech disgusting,all these housewives moved by a stuttering kings speech welcoming a lovely,cosy little world war.There is nothing wrong with horror in movies,in fact horror as a genre tends to reflect where we are.
Torture porn?Films about americans going to foreign countries then being met tortured.....hmmmm.
A lot of audiences are subjected to the most hideous violence on the news,Gaddaffi anyone?Murder on tv.
Maybe its a bit of a cathartic thing,i suggest the original poster read some JG Ballard.Clearly does not grasp or understand American Pyscho.It is a comedy,the most disturbing factor for me was Batemans critical opinions on Huey Lewis.
Trust me things we're even more appalling culturally years ago.At the least viewers nowadays are knowing,understand irony.
Suppose you think watching violence leads to violence?Lordy lord.
Well why not reverse the trend if thats what you imagine,let a roomful of homicidal maniacs watch hours and hours of Carebears,set them free....there going to be nice as pie?
There is room for everything boring rom coms for boring people,exploding car movies for petrol heads and ultra violence,gratutious nudity for b movie obsessed,arrogant twerps like me.

Sorry if ANYONE is applying a film to their own pyschopathology.....get out more.Experience real life.I implore you to make a distinction between reality and fantasy.If you are unable to do that you may be inclined to think of yourself as impaired or pyschotic.HOW CAN ANYONE diss Goodfellas?Does this argument apply to other genres?Shakespeare?Art......i am off to hit my head against a brick wall.The level of generic banality of opinion is shocking.
Nowadays i don't mind being wrong.

Got to disagree with the premise here, I do not think Hannibal or American psyco are slasher / gorefest or near horror.

In Hannibal, Lecter is not as odious as Mason Verger (the mega millionaire, reclusiive, child molester, who lives on a ranch and chose to cut his own face off - compare and contrast Michael Jackson allegations), but old hast a in Silence Buffalo Bill was more repugnant than Lecter.

Worst part was when he accuses redneck misogynist Paul (Ray Liotta) of hating women just like St Paul. Hannibal Lecter would be well read enough to see through this piecc of QI General Ignorance, that the wrongly attributed pseudo-Paul letters not by the bibilical St Paul were the women hating ones. Danger of author Thomas Harris and director Ridley Scott creating / directing a character more intelligent than them.

A film cannot be immoral. A film is either well made or badly made that is all, to paraphrase Oscar Wilde!

I randomly came across this thread while perusing for new horror movies to add to my stash. I must say a lot of these posts made me laugh to be honest, and a full thumbs up to those who pointed out that comparing films to psyche's is essentially pointless.

I love Horror of all genre's and have sat through a variety of styles, I am particularly a fan of possession movies, less of gore fests, Like B movies, formerly banned video nasties (always worth a watch before judging) Ghost movies (only if done well) Teen movies (YUCK!) Comedy Horror (ONLY if done well like American Werewolf in London) Fairytale horrors, Company of Wolves YES! Red riding hood God no....

Psychological horror for me is my favourite ESPECIALLY asian based horror's atypically Ringu, Ju-on, Marebito, 3 Extremes, strange circus, The phone, the eye, Tale of two sisters is a big favourite for me...

Simply put, Horror is like tea, there are many flavour's out there some you will like, some you will love some you can't stand, my advice is simple stick to your favourite flavour's and try a new one occasionally as you might just like it!

Oh and to anyone getting OTT on this thread, chill out put a movie on and relax ;)

Well said, Lucy Clare. One of the best things about the genre we love is that a strong sense of humour runs through a lot of it, and some of the posters here are losing sight of that. A lot of the recent run of ''torture porn'' films didn't appeal to me-so I just don't watch them, but am always interested in the opinions of people who see something in them that I don't. As you said, people should just relax-enjoy what you like, and try to be open-minded about what you don't like immediately.

Well I can't stand comedy horror at any price. It's got to be dark and unremittingly malevolent to work for me.

There is no room for comedy in horror. It is almost always a huge failure. if i want to watch a comedy i will watch a comedy. When i watch a horror movie, i want to be horrified.

As a kid, i loved the supernatural and monster based horror movies. Today at 41 yo, i do not like either. I like horror movies that are based on reality and people. You can call it torture horror or reality horror if you like. I'm sorry but the jason's, dracula's, zombie's and wolfmans are just Science FICTION to me about as believable and scary as santa clause. People are the true monsters.

Here are a few reality based horror movies to enjoy!

Hostel 1+2
Saw series
French horrors-Martyrs, Inside, High Tension, Frontiers
Funny Games
I Saw The Devil
Oldboy
The Woman
A Serbian Film
The Bunny Game

You can MOST DEFINETLY have humour in horror.Just has to be well done.The Lost Boys,American Werewolf In London,Evil Dead,Bad Taste,The Stuff are a few examples.I actually found myself laughing at A Serbian Film at its attempt to shock.What you are saying is you PREFER no humour in your horror.If you wanted to get pretentious you could argue both Funny Games and Hostel serve as satire.

You can MOST DEFINETLY have humour in horror.Just has to be well done.The Lost Boys,American Werewolf In London,Evil Dead,Bad Taste,The Stuff are a few examples.I actually found myself laughing at A Serbian Film at its attempt to shock.What you are saying is you PREFER no humour in your horror.If you wanted to get pretentious you could argue both Funny Games and Hostel serve as satire.