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nazi flags on amazon!?


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Initial post: 17 May 2012 16:53:48 BDT
amazon are selling actual NAZI flags.

SERIOUSLY amazon, have some respect!!!

Posted on 17 May 2012 17:04:35 BDT
[Deleted by the author on 21 May 2012 17:28:25 BDT]

Posted on 17 May 2012 17:31:45 BDT
I'm don't think Argentina's national flag is very popular in the United Kingdom right now! but I'm not sure that Amazon shouldn't stock it. An obvious use for some of these controversial items might be for use in school awareness projects and possibly the battle re-enactments being staged in these anniversary years.

Don't get me wrong! - I do agree with you. My family lost 5 ancestors in WW1, and 7 in WW2.
It is a shocking reminder of a horrific time in our recent history, but as with the wonderful Poppy, I choose to think these awful symbols of mass genocide might also help to serve a purpose, especially to today's generations - "Lest We Forget" x

Posted on 17 May 2012 19:29:34 BDT
Papillon says:
I don't think the Nazi flag is in any way comparable to the Argentinian Flag! Since when did Argentina commence a programme of mass genocide?

Posted on 17 May 2012 19:30:47 BDT
Douglas Watt says:
Some english consider the union jack a symbol of civilization, believe their flag represents democracy and freedom.

To many more people the union jack is known as the butchers apron, representing cruel and violent colonial oppression, the enslavement of native peoples. To this group of people the union jack represents the most evil empire the world has ever witnessed. The British empire where the sun never set and the blood of innocents never dried.
soar alba a-gus ard chumrigh anis

In reply to an earlier post on 17 May 2012 21:19:47 BDT
Papillon says:
I think you are clouding the issue! The Union Jack and Argentinian flag are National flags whereas the 'Nazi' flag denotes political orientation (extreme right wing) and is still in use today by fascists . The Union Jack may once have been associated with colonialism but it's use today is confined to expressions of National Pride.

In reply to an earlier post on 17 May 2012 22:46:49 BDT
[Deleted by Amazon on 22 May 2012 17:29:02 BDT]

Posted on 17 May 2012 23:57:09 BDT
Last edited by the author on 18 May 2012 01:37:06 BDT
Papillon, I was just trying to say that there will always be controversial items for sale on Amazon and elsewhere, many things that will be of great offence to many people, but personally, I don't really feel that it shows a serious lack of respect. And when I later referred to 'these awful symbols of mass genocide', I was actually referring back to the topic of 'Nazi' flags. I'm sorry if I wasn't being very clear and confused you there - I see now how I could have written that a lot better.

I think you are quite right in saying that - "the 'Nazi' flag denotes political orientation (extreme right wing) and is still in use today by fascists". And I think virtually every person on this planet knows that too because it is, without doubt, a symbol of brutal oppression and pure hatred. That is why I feel that it is not 'disrespectful' to still see this flag and be always reminded of that fact. I hope that all future generations will also have the opportunity to be educated and informed accordingly and never be allowed to become ignorant of its existence in the past, and also sadly in the history to come.

The people who suffered and died should never be forgotten, such huge sacrifices should not be in vain and I think that so long as most people are still repulsed and offended by what it stands for, then we never will forget. I am reminded of this everytime I see this symbol as much as I am when I wear my Poppy with pride. I'm very sad that some people might want to buy it in support of it's symbolism, but if they do it is their decision, their right, whether we agree with those rights or not. Ultimately, is that not what our country fought for - a free country.

And I am sorry if I have offended you with my opinion. x

In reply to an earlier post on 18 May 2012 16:56:46 BDT
Last edited by the author on 18 May 2012 17:11:11 BDT
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In reply to an earlier post on 18 May 2012 17:01:51 BDT
You could say the same for many flags. The belgians, for example. their treatment of the congolese people in the 19th and early 20th century was disgraceful. they massacred them to similiar proportions as the nazis massacared the jews.

that said, I completely agree with your point. the british treatment of the inhabitants of their colonies was terrible.

Posted on 18 May 2012 17:21:33 BDT
C Johnson says:
Swastikas have also been used in other various ancient civilizations around the world. It remains widely used in Indian religions, specifically in Hinduism, Buddhism and Jainism, primarily as a tantric symbol to evoke 'shakti' or the sacred symbol of auspiciousness. The swastika is also a Chinese character used in East Asia representing eternity and Buddhism.
The Nazis hijacked it!! Source: Wikipedia

Posted on 18 May 2012 19:21:06 BDT
Thank you C Johnson,
You can learn such interesting things by getting involved in these forums!
I'll have a look. x

In reply to an earlier post on 18 May 2012 19:41:46 BDT
Last edited by the author on 18 May 2012 19:42:43 BDT
A friend told me recently that for some years now there have been many reports that Falklands penguins are starving to death through over-fishing. I looked it up online and was horrified to discover that the Falklands wildlife is in deep crisis. Official records show that at least 100,000 penguins died from starvation during May 2002 alone. :o<

So instead of Chile - why not return these beautiful islands back to it's wildlife? - whilst there is still time. I wish mankind would realise that wildlife is much more important to this planet than ownership status and oil reserves! x

Posted on 18 May 2012 20:15:59 BDT
Although the Nazi flag is abhorrent to many people, it is part of history and if bought by schools etc to demonstrate this vile regime then I have no objection.
On the other hand, for many countries the Union Jack was a symbol of the British taking over African, Caribbean and America in the past, killing natives in their quest to civilise them and basically rule the world. How many people have the good consciousness to complain about Amazon selling this flag?

Posted on 18 May 2012 22:15:25 BDT
Doesn't matter what country you come from, you will fight for a rag on a pole and kill others who fight for theirs.
Right or wrong is only a matter of beliefs and opinions.

Posted on 18 May 2012 22:27:53 BDT
if its bought for general interest not for the likes of combat 18 i see no problem in it you can get various flags, badges,of old aircraft you can get sets of how people lived in the wars cooking,rationing,gas masks etc these are good to show to school groups when thexm do a project on war.the more we remember about it now it keeps the horror of war in young peoples minds and hope it stops future wars.

In reply to an earlier post on 18 May 2012 23:36:51 BDT
There is no such flag as The Union Jack. It is called The Union Flag

In reply to an earlier post on 19 May 2012 11:00:45 BDT
Richard says:
@Suzy - Argentina didn't go in for genocide as such, but they have had plenty of dissident citizens, rather like Chile, who simply "disappeared". Germans are not despotic now either, doesn't mean Nazism never existed.

I don't suffer conniptions every time I see a swastika, like you, it reminds me that there are some things in life we can't afford to forget, and freedoms that we once could not take for granted (such as the freedom to have a dissident opinion in Argentina back in the day). Its also important to remember that it is (reversed) a religious symbol too, not that many people would comprehend the difference these days.

I don't care so much about seeing them - are we really going to edit the symbology out in war propaganda films next? But buying one, well, I don't see a whole lot of point in that.

Your opinion was fine by me, I think sometimes people look too hard for offence.

In reply to an earlier post on 19 May 2012 11:15:58 BDT
Richard says:
I'm just writing a final essay for uni on "violence was a foundation of empire, discuss" - I can assure you that the English were no more saintly than any other imperial power (Spain was far worse, driven by religious zealots at the time) but in general at the more moderate end of the scale. It was the nature of colonialism, you don't retain power over other people with candy and kisses - every colonial power had to adopt those methods. It was not Britain's "fault" nor Spain's, Portugal's, France's etc. It was the way the world was constituted at the time. We can't afford to judge the past by today's standards without putting ourselves in some meaningful way back into that past - just to see how different the rules were then. For example, Cortes wasn't forging an empire when he massacred thousands in Cholula, he was trying to establish himself on an equal footing to Velazques, Govr. of Cuba, because Velazques wanted Cortes' neck in a noose. The creation of empires was essentially accidental even if their subsequent development wasn't - in other words, the actions of freebooters and mercenaries determined the start of the process, and no wonder it ended up the way it did. Spain eventually began to use the wealth to threaten England and England got dragged into the process of empire pretty much for survival - like an arms race, but for territory and wealth. Sometimes logical actions at the time take the world to illogical places, sad but true.

Posted on 19 May 2012 11:56:58 BDT
Last edited by the author on 19 May 2012 12:02:28 BDT
I feel quite sorry for the German people.
I can't begin to imagine what it must feel like to be condemned as part of a whole population by the rest of the World.
Yes, I know Germans can often live up to the stereotype of humourless arrogance but it must also be very hard to continue to live down their country's horrific and shameful past. To always feel judged by that period in history by so many, regardless.

I've spent many wonderful holidays around the Rhine regions and have always been very impressed by their high standards and efficiency. I can easily understand now why they are often so particular when holidaying in other countries - I've found the streets are so clean and the rail service was simply amazing! The carriages were immaculate and I could set my watch by them!

I have been treated with such warmth, thoughtfulness and kindness too on every visit.
In 2003, I was waiting at the airport for my flight home and found my rather heavy backpack had been packed with a few extras -2 lovely bottles of wine, a full packed lunch of breads, ham, cheeses and jams, sausage and even a boiled egg! - all carefully wrapped up with a couple of beautiful wine glasses. I was completely overwhelmed by such a generous, caring gesture! x

Thanks Archie Dalrymple - I'll look that up as well!!! x
And Richard - this topic is becoming really fascinating - thank you! x

In reply to an earlier post on 20 May 2012 07:56:48 BDT
Last edited by the author on 20 May 2012 07:57:50 BDT
A man from Luxembourg....I assume from your Falklands argument that The Canary Islands should be handed to a West African Nation, and Alaska should go to Canada or Russia. The people of the Falklands want to be British, but hey what has democracy got to do with it. While we are at it, as Luxembourg is such a small country, lets hand it to France!

Posted on 20 May 2012 20:11:51 BDT
Richard says:
@Suzy - I correspond with a few German people and know a couple that live here in England; although Germans tend not to use all the qualifiers and other words that are often used to soften English, making some of the things they say sound a bit harsh in English, I've never really had any problems there.

I tend to think that the war against Germany was actually a war against Nazism, and by defeating Nazism we actually helped save Germany from a far worse fate, in the same way that we cut up people to save them from something malignant inside, and put them back together in the hope and expectation that they'll heal afterwards (the Marshall Plan makes more sense that way).

I'd be interested to know whether people in European countries can buy these Nazi flags across borders, because there are places, eg France, where they'd probably get into serious trouble for doing that.

In reply to an earlier post on 20 May 2012 20:16:28 BDT
presterjohn says:
Silly statement. The only people to ever settle on the island were and are British. No Argentine or Chilian (if you like) has ever lived there. A tempory garrison on a war footing by a few ship supplied Argies back in days gone by is the best the Argies can come up with on claims of ownership. More importantly the people that actually have formed a society and culture all consider themselves part of the British realm and wish it to stay that way.

Posted on 21 May 2012 00:25:23 BDT
I was looking at Adrian Ritchie's post just now - and wanted to add just a wheechy-bit to it -
@ Adrian - War does not prove who is Right only who is LEFT

@ presterjohn - according to the dates in history we were living in the Falklands before Argentina became a nation - they were a Spanish Colony if I recall correctly

@ Richard - That is a splendid post - I am copying it and sending it to an Old Tutor - she lectured in Greek and Theology and she was often apt to make a point very much along those lines - Violence could always be a foundation of Empire.

The Nazi Flag is of itself a symbol of violence and conflict, personally I would not have one - or its symbol in my home - however - the more we say against its use the more its adherents will insist on keeping it - suppose we were to ignore it - and not purchase from any store that sold it - would that help - I have not seen where Amazon are selling them - no that I have ever had the occasion to go looking - up to now - but I shall see where it is and at least ask why it is sold here.

Hi Suzysunshine - My experience of a Holiday in Germany / and Austria - is much the same as yours

Posted on 21 May 2012 00:37:27 BDT
Right - you look for Swastika - and if you want to you can buy a blooming great big one five ft by eight - they also have the "Totenkopf" badge of the SS and the flag of the AWB - the S/African version of the Nazi Party - well - here it is - turned Midnight - it's half-past Monday I shall ask Amazon in the morning why they are selling this stuff - my personal reaction would be to ignore the thing - right now I am wondering quite idly if it is really worth their while selling them - about fifty something items - Amazon cater for everyone - impartially and non-judgementally
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Discussion in:  deals discussion forum
Participants:  26
Total posts:  60
Initial post:  17 May 2012
Latest post:  24 May 2012

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