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What's up with my scones


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In reply to an earlier post on 22 May 2013 15:42:47 BDT
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing ...

I never wrote of "good" bacteria as you claim. I wrote of the "beneficial" bacteria present in raw milk and perhaps that was misleading.

So, to dot the i's and cross the t's, I will explain further. This bacteria is only beneficial in the sense it will go on multiplying in raw milk producing a very acidic and thickened milk. It is also "beneficial" in the meaning that through the production of lactic acid it stops other spoiling agents in their tracks and the milk will be soured before it is eventually spoilt. To suggest taking "pot luck" by leaving pasteurised milk out to be soured by local bacteria is an absolute no-no, no matter how relatively hygienic you may be. That ways lies a grave risk of food poisoning.

The safe ways to sour pasteurised milk are by adding an edible acid to it or alternatively, physically introducing a souring culture such as lactobacillus to the milk like those used by today's buttermilk and yoghurt manufacturers. These are available from health stores.

As regards raw milk, it is very difficult to buy these days though when it is available from a reputable source it is *not* often "contaminated by the cows, their faeces and the local flora in the fields and contain a large number of dangerous bacteria from E. coli, and Helicobacter pylori to Listeria, to name just a few", as you claim. If you had written it *was* often contaminated, i.e. in the past, fair enough. Present reputable sellers of raw milk undergo very stringent testing by the FSA, as they should, and it is only available for retail in England and Wales and is forbidden in Scotland.

Anyone looking for more information can find plenty at the site of Hook and Son, UK where all is explained.

Posted on 22 May 2013 14:20:56 BDT
Bearman says:
BTW - I like raw milk because it tastes better (mainly from not being slimmed!)

In reply to an earlier post on 22 May 2013 14:19:46 BDT
Bearman says:
Just read this thread, and sorry Billy, but I have to pick you up on the earlier post regarding the good bacteria in raw milk. This could lead people to believe that raw milk is healthier which it definitely is not. The pasteurisation process was develeoped because raw milk often is contaminated by the cows, their faeces and the local flora in the fields and contain a large number of dangerous bacteria from E. coli, and Helicobacter pylori to Listeria, to name just a few. Ingestion of these may not only cause severe stomach upset, but also cause ulcers, miscarriages and even death. Now the bacteria to be found in pasteurised milk that has gone off, is entirely dependent on your kitchen and personal bacterial flora. Pot luck, but if you are relatively hygenic and have good yoghurts and cheeses in your kitchen, then there is a significant chance that the milk will be soured by your beneficial bacteria..............

Posted on 22 May 2013 13:42:58 BDT
The title of this thread made me laugh; as a long-time member of VegWeb, on that forum "making scones" was a euphemism for The Dirty Deed.

Posted on 22 May 2013 12:47:43 BDT
HARRY says:
use an ice cream scoop instead of rolling them out

In reply to an earlier post on 24 Apr 2013 21:29:10 BDT
pixie says:
I can't believe how much buttermilk I use these days Billy! I get through loads.....it is a great ingredient, low fat and a real boon in the kitchen....I am a real fan of soda bread and it works so well in that! Hope you continue to post tips on here, we are always welcoming to fellow food nuts and any tips are well recieved...good to have you around!x

Posted on 24 Apr 2013 21:04:46 BDT
I totally agree with most of that, Pixie, and absolutely no offence taken at all.

The only thing I would say is, that if someone does post a "hint/tip/how-to-do-it" which could prove dangerous it should be pointed out to more unwary bakers: we don't all have the knowledge. Using "turned" pasteurised milk could prove very, very dodgy to a lot of people and that's the only reason I replied to Janet's answer of my point of about a year ago.

Saying that, I'm still happily baking scones, sweet and savoury, (cheese & chives especially, yum-yum) and mainly still using that Polish buttermilk from Tesco I mentioned a while back. If I've none of that in the fridge, well, it's just lemon juice or vinegar.
(And there have been many, many days when I turn to an old US breakfast dish of sausage gravy & biscuits (American "scones"when I do need to really hit a filling spot!)

In reply to an earlier post on 24 Apr 2013 20:43:45 BDT
pixie says:
No I wasn't Billy I was just trying to say ...bake 'em! That's what it's all about....there are alot of ideas of how the best scones are made but I was told the best advice by a gardener...just do it...try different ways but the important thing is do it!.....When you get into the "milk/buttermilk/yogurt has to be ABC then it gets complicated! I think sometimes the simple ( Mary Berry) ways are the tried and tested best. I didn't mean to offend...hope I didn't, but scones have been made in my neck of the woods for years, in cottage gardens and cafe's....and pleased holiday makers for years! Don't over work....don't roll, and be quick! Sorted!

Posted on 24 Apr 2013 20:37:02 BDT
Hi Pixie,
I'm not sure if you're answering my post with your comment of "All this for scones?..." but a lot of people today do not realise the difference between the milk we now buy at the supermarket (i.e. pasteurised) and the old-fashioned milk we used to get delivered on the doorstep "when I were a lad". That was "raw" milk and it truly is a food safety issue; any posts suggesting using "turned" milk in this day and age should be pointed out as to the possible dangers.
(BTW, you can actually still buy raw milk online in the UK. A quick Google should find it and it truly is excellent stuff, and their butter too.)

Posted on 24 Apr 2013 19:34:41 BDT
pixie says:
All this for scones?...they are served all over the west country for Cream teas....just use fresh ingredients.. sort out Mary Berry's recipe,.don't over mix and be quick and you'll be fine!x

Posted on 24 Apr 2013 19:32:55 BDT
pixie says:
All this for scones?...they are served all over the west country for Cream teas....just use ffesh ingredients...don't over mix and be quick and you'll be fine!

In reply to an earlier post on 24 Apr 2013 19:29:40 BDT
Last edited by the author on 24 Apr 2013 20:38:46 BDT
Hi Janet Brown,

OK, the milk may not be "rotten" as I said, but it *WILL* be spoiled if you are using milk from a normal supplier such as a supermarket.

If pasteurised milk has "turned", as you claim, it is well past wholesome and could even be dangerous to consumers. Don't take my word for it. Google "pasteurised sour milk" and you may get some shocks. Most milk sold today at the usual outlets (supermarkets/convenience stores etc.) *IS* pasteurised.

In the "olden days" our grandparents/parents were supplied with *raw* milk delivered to the doorstep and this is where the difference lies, between raw milk and pasteurised milk.

Pasteurisation means the beneficial bacteria present in the milk which would have turned it into old-fashioned "sour milk" was destroyed in the pasteurisation process. What happens next is, foreign bacteria become introduced to the milk and the stuff *spoils*. It does go rotten and is dangerous.

It does *NOT* sour!

It can also be very, very dangerous to consumers, but as I say, do not take my word for it. Do your own proper research.

If however you are fortunate to be able to source raw milk then you should have absolutely no problems at all.

Where do you obtain your milk supplies from?

In reply to an earlier post on 24 Apr 2013 18:32:40 BDT
pixie says:
poobear....Mary Berry has the best scones!

Posted on 24 Apr 2013 18:30:53 BDT
poohbear says:
My scones were always rubbish but I found and tried Mary Berrys recipe, she uses buttermilk, I followed the very easy recipe to the letter and now I keep being asked by family, friends and neighbours to make them for them, even I have to admit they are pretty good and as I say, so so easy to make.

In reply to an earlier post on 23 Apr 2013 19:24:06 BDT
pixie says:
We know how you feel!

In reply to an earlier post on 23 Apr 2013 17:15:43 BDT
Last edited by the author on 23 Apr 2013 17:16:00 BDT
I personally only use whatever, as I might be Lactose intolerant as I am intolerant to most things.

Posted on 23 Apr 2013 15:21:55 BDT
pixie says:
If you paint the top with egg or milk or whatever...make sure it doesn't dribble down the sides. Don't over handle...I never roll out just pat it into shape.

In reply to an earlier post on 23 Apr 2013 10:37:57 BDT
queenB says:
You probably used too much liquid and handle them too much!
My mum's scones were wonderful, her recipe was 8oz S.R. Flour, 11/2oz sugar,3 oz marg, pinch salt & hand full of sultanas, an egg and a drop of milk. Rub in flour and marg, add sugar & sultanas then bring together with 1 egg and a DROP of milk with a knife. Empty the mix onto a floured surface, lightly form into a sausage and cut into 8 scones, shape them then cook in a hot oven, gas mark 8 for about 10-15 mins. Hope this works....let me know:)

In reply to an earlier post on 23 Apr 2013 09:24:13 BDT
Janet brown says:
in reply to Billy the Baker the milk wouldnt be rotten just not fit to use as a drink i use milk that has "turned" now and my scones are lovely.

In reply to an earlier post on 31 May 2012 01:06:19 BDT
Henrietta says:
I use plain yoghourt (fat content of the yoghourt doesn't matter). The acid in both yoghourt and buttermilk reacts with the raising agent in the SR flour and improves the rise. We used to use sour milk for scones in the days when we could get raw milk which went sour (pasteurised and other treated milks don't sour in a useable way they just go bad).

Another important piece of advice is to cook them as soon as you have made them so the raising agent doesn't have chance to "go over"

In reply to an earlier post on 30 May 2012 21:55:21 BDT
The Ace says:
Hi Susannah

are you putting your scone mix into a very hot oven? Anne

Posted on 30 May 2012 19:49:00 BDT
Good grief! - too much information! Your hubbies must really be into their scones?! Lol.
And I thought we were talking about raising agents for dough mixtures?! - no wonder I'm still single! :o>

In reply to an earlier post on 30 May 2012 19:44:34 BDT
pixie says:
OOOh! matron! I'm off to make some scones! Lol!

In reply to an earlier post on 30 May 2012 19:42:18 BDT
susannah says:
Yes divorce plans on hold we may even renew our vows; sorry can't spend anymore time with you I think an early night is calling!!!

In reply to an earlier post on 30 May 2012 19:40:32 BDT
susannah says:
A combination I think, this time I had the mixture more stocky than I have in the past. Also very little handling and prayers. Thanks for your help I'll try cheese scones next!!
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Discussion in:  cooking discussion forum
Participants:  22
Total posts:  55
Initial post:  25 May 2012
Latest post:  22 May 2013

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