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Are we still wallowing under a gigantic Austro-Germanic Shadow?


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In reply to an earlier post on 21 Aug 2012 11:48:51 BDT
Nick says:
"they have a Forum-troll" (said with tired acceptance - see below)

MacDoom - I love the idea that Bruckner 6 is for the Hobbit - whole new vistas are opening for me. Is poor old Bilbo labouring under a gigantic Austro-Germanic Shadow cast across Middle-Earth too? What's happening on Mount Doom (better known as the collected works of Gustav Mahler)?

Posted on 21 Aug 2012 12:17:26 BDT
Last edited by the author on 21 Aug 2012 17:07:52 BDT
As I have said before I am sadly lacking in imagination and fail to see pictures, colours etc when listening to music. I find the connection between Bruckner 6 and The Hobbit totally baffling. Bantock's Celtic Symphony does however use a traditional Hebridean tune that also appears in the soundtrack of LOTR.

In reply to an earlier post on 21 Aug 2012 12:24:30 BDT
JayJayDee says:
Wasp season will shortly be upon us, Nick.
You know - that time of the year when some buzzing insect seems to invade your picnic. Whether you take a swing at them or pretend they are not there, it makes little difference. They have a single-minded obsession in their short pointless lives.
But the best thing is usually to turn up the music and ignore the little pests. There's usually some alternative attraction elsewhere for them to satisfy their bizarre practices!

BTW I like the MacDoom idea of pieces of music equating with books (or poems).
I hear the tread of the threat of a thread marching in.....

In reply to an earlier post on 21 Aug 2012 12:29:02 BDT
JayJayDee says:
>> MacDoom Did you see Billy Connolly's Tour of New Zealand?
Wonderful story of him happening upon a poor fellow being taunted and ridiculed mercilessly in the street.
It turns out he was the only one in the neighbourhood who hadn't watched LoTR.

That makes three of us, then!

Posted on 21 Aug 2012 12:41:50 BDT
JJD: here are a few to start you off:

Beethoven's 9th - 'Farewell my Lovely' - Raymond Chandler
Vaughan Williams 5th Symphony - 'Phineas Finn' - Anthony Trollope
Mozart Piano Concerto No 25 in C - 'Wuthering Heights' - Emily Bronte
Wagner - Tristan und Isolde - 'My Idea of Fun' - Will Self

In reply to an earlier post on 21 Aug 2012 14:54:39 BDT
MacDoom says:
JJD,

Where I live, my terrible secret is not known. I can walk unmolested, unthreatened and, erm, untaunted. As it were. And Connolly's World Tour of New Zealand is one I didn't see. Scotland and UK (so nice they were seperate...) were fun, so I might yet indulge.

Posted on 21 Aug 2012 15:36:36 BDT
You won't be sorry. The excerpts from his stage shows on the NZ World Tour vid.are probably the funniest on any of the relevant tours.

Posted on 21 Aug 2012 17:05:46 BDT
Malx says:
MacDoom, you might think you are safe but I am only an hours drive away! (only joking) ;-)

Posted on 21 Aug 2012 17:56:19 BDT
Malx says:
An off topic question, well losely related. Are Jascha Horensteins Bruckner recordings equally well regarded as his Mahler?

Posted on 21 Aug 2012 18:01:17 BDT
[Deleted by Amazon on 13 Oct 2012 19:29:18 BDT]

In reply to an earlier post on 21 Aug 2012 19:14:53 BDT
MacDoom says:
I will not be blackmailed! Do you take cheques?

In reply to an earlier post on 21 Aug 2012 19:45:12 BDT
Piso Mojado says:
Malx -- Horenstein's Bruckner isn't valued as highly as his Mahler in this house, mainly because it's older and on Vox with challenged orchestras.

In reply to an earlier post on 21 Aug 2012 20:31:18 BDT
PJGE says:
I agree.

Posted on 21 Aug 2012 21:49:45 BDT
K. Beazley says:
As much as I enjoy all of this banter about Tolkien (and Wouter, you really should see the movies, they are so honouring of Tolkien's vision - besides, of all the people here, you should be the one most interested to see what happens on the journey to Mount McDoom), I'm wondering if I'm the only person who still thinks there's some profitable ground that could be covered on the thread topic?

In reply to an earlier post on 21 Aug 2012 21:54:13 BDT
John Ruggeri says:
Tchitcherine says:

Much as I appreciate John R's really generous offer, alas, I've recently developed an allergy to tomatoes, so no sauce for me, thank you. One of my favourite meals used to be just pasta, a few vegetables, some mushrooms, and lashings of tomato sauce. In fact, I still would like to eat some now, but if I were to try...I'd pay the price.
=========
Sir

I went the more common Italian mainland route for my basic invite. My family is Sicilian and I would offer you a brown pasta sauce made with lamb, veal. potatoes and seasoning. The gods weep with joy.

Regards-John

In reply to an earlier post on 21 Aug 2012 22:06:12 BDT
Last edited by the author on 22 Aug 2012 17:38:11 BDT
John Ruggeri says:
Back to music.
I love the music, the sound of the sitar and with violin are to my rather conservative ears a great joy.
Ravi Shankar & Yehudi Menuhin Sitar & Violin Duet ( HD )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpxHjwzJEz0

Another wonder to my ears and heart "Sans - Austro-German"
Theremin - Clara Rockmore "Ensemble with Jascha Heifetz" bu Joseph Achron
Rockmore and Heifetz were born in Vilnius, Lithuania. The theremin and composer Joseph Achron are courtesy of Russia.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8w6sRjVYkow

Posted on 21 Aug 2012 22:41:13 BDT
Mark says:
Well...... its a great shadow

In reply to an earlier post on 21 Aug 2012 23:55:12 BDT
[Deleted by Amazon on 13 Oct 2012 19:29:19 BDT]

In reply to an earlier post on 22 Aug 2012 02:46:51 BDT
John Ruggeri says:
Vaslav

I love to cook with vegetables. Eating and musical preferences should be respected even if one has
different TASTES. Life is too short to have some of the animus we have about relatively unimportant things.** I love Music and Lamb dearly but NOT to the death.

Regards-John

** I have been known to let loose venom on Religion and Politics which IMO affect us all and are important.

In reply to an earlier post on 22 Aug 2012 03:49:04 BDT
[Deleted by Amazon on 13 Oct 2012 19:29:21 BDT]

In reply to an earlier post on 22 Aug 2012 04:38:42 BDT
John Ruggeri says:
Vaslav

In politics and religion I am a "Scather Cum Laude".

Regards -John

--------------------
RE: Music

I happen to love early Jazz especially Dixieland and I offer a selection whcih has musical enjoyment as well as a personal meaning for me.
NOT Austro/German or Austro/Hungarian for that matter as the composer, Joe Venuti, is American born
and was my Great Uncle.

Joe Venuti, violin, Eddie Lang, guitar, Arthur Schutt, piano -- Doin' Things (Lang, Venuti), Parlophone 1928
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yrvvDtFpCw

In reply to an earlier post on 22 Aug 2012 07:06:37 BDT
JayJayDee says:
Kim, You are right. There is plenty of unexplored ground under the thread topic but it was hi-jacked by our 'troll-hunter' friend who is quite clearly a more mischievous troll than even DAS (and somehow quite possibly even the same person!)
I deliberately chose my mixed metaphor of wallowing in the shadow; because I certainly didn't mean either 'hiding' or 'suffering' in the shadow. Clearly, by the nature of discussions on this forum most of us love the A/G era.
The original post clearly admits that it states some stereotypes. The point being for us to accept or challenge those stereotypes in debate.

That debate has not eventuated and we know who is responsible for that. That is the essence of self-important trollers - to infiltrate and disrupt others' enjoyment. As correctly observed ' The only thing necessary to ensure the triumph of evil is for those of good intent to do nothing.'
If others placed the disruptive character on Ignore and/or voted down his absurdities then all this would be resolved quite quickly. Oherwise I fear I will not be bothering to visit the forum pages to see -

'You are ignoring this customers posts. Show post anyway.'

Not worth it!

In reply to an earlier post on 22 Aug 2012 07:26:12 BDT
K. Beazley says:
JJD,

"That debate has not eventuated and we know who is responsible for that."

Yes, but it doesn't stop you & me from at least engaging positively on the topic. I'll get back to you with some thoughts on the issue ASAP.

"If others placed the disruptive character on Ignore and/or voted down his absurdities then all this would be resolved quite quickly."

But most of them, especially the ones devoted to contention, *are* voted against. That's hardly going to slow down, let alone stop someone who is hell-bent on wreaking havoc.

In reply to an earlier post on 22 Aug 2012 09:19:18 BDT
Malx: Try Bruckner 8 & 9 from Horenstein on BBC Legends - live performances from 1970, much the same vintage as his Mahler and in stereo.

In reply to an earlier post on 22 Aug 2012 09:21:44 BDT
JayJayDee says:
Kim, >7 negative votes results in the removal of a posting.
Referral of postings to the site administrators as spam or objectionable content has the same effect.
Constant removals result in accounts being closed.

Personally I think that the 'alleged' A/G shadow experienced as a reality in my younger days has less of an effect than it used to have. As mentioned in an earlier posting I think we have to thank some independent smaller labels plus Naxos (which is big business now!) for this shift of emphasis. But more importantly I think that there simply haven't been enough newer composers of the A/G background writing enough good music that derives from that well-spring!

There are those who love the composers dearly but I doubt that it can be realistically stated that composers like Schoenberg, Hindemith, Henze and Stockhausen carried the flag during the twentieth century as well as the towering 18th/19th Century A/G masters. I don't know if this is to sink into JF's 'mythical cultural imperatives' but there have obviously been some changes in the balance of economic, social, cultural and ethical ground-bases across the world.
Furthermore the tyranny of publishers, concert programmers and reviewers has been broken by the mass availability of recordings.
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