Customer Discussions > classical music discussion forum

CROSSOVER WITH ROCK....


Sort: Oldest first | Newest first
Showing 1-25 of 32 posts in this discussion
Initial post: 14 Nov 2008 10:36:45 GMT
Last edited by the author on 18 Nov 2008 20:03:47 GMT
Adam Jackson says:
I've developed an interest in Classical after being introduced via
Rock/Metal/ Classical crossover albums such as Metallica's S&M and acts such as Therion. I'm curious as to what Classical lovers think of such projects as these, and how many, converseley, have developed a taste for Rock as a result....

In reply to an earlier post on 18 Nov 2008 14:34:15 GMT
Last edited by the author on 18 Nov 2008 14:35:05 GMT
Bill Peter says:
I enjoy both rock and classical music. My favourite classical composers are Mozart and Tchaikovsky. Are you looking for recommendations? If so, try Mozart's Requiem and 40th Symphony,plus Tchaikovsky's 1812 Overture and 5th Symphony. Also try any compilation box set to see what you enjoy. Cheers.

In reply to an earlier post on 5 Apr 2012 02:39:28 BDT
Piso Mojado says:
Bass Rene Pape made a CD with rock band Rammstein. Heavy ...

Posted on 5 Apr 2012 08:35:59 BDT
Hello Adam and welcome to the forum.

I enjoy both classical and rock, but not as a result of crossover. In my childhood I began as a pop/rock fan but found my way to classical music when I started piano lessons. Crossover isn't my particular taste but, as far as I'm concerned, "let a thousand flowers bloom".

In reply to an earlier post on 5 Apr 2012 08:51:39 BDT
Last edited by the author on 5 Apr 2012 08:52:10 BDT
T. Franklin says:
I've not heard the S&M project, though it seems to be little more than shoe-horning an orchestra onto Metallica's songs from what I've read?

I do have a soft spot for Deep Purple's Concerto For Group & Orchestra, which is a largely successful effort to combine rock and classical fields.

Posted on 5 Apr 2012 10:50:05 BDT
Last edited by the author on 5 Apr 2012 14:36:50 BDT
Malx says:
Hi Adam, I too came to classical via rock to some degree, in my youth I listened to bands such as Yes and Itailian group PFM and I believe their "song" construction was more akin to classical than most. Many of the players were classically trained. It is amazing how many themes in some pop songs have been "borrowed" from classical works. One, the name of which escapes me uses the theme from the last movement of Saint Saens Organ symphony. Or course we can't forget Emerson Lake an Palmers' take on Mussorgsky/Ravel Pictures at an Exhibition. Keith Emerson borrowed extensively from classical music when he was in the band Nice, I believe he went on to write a couple of piano concertos himself, whilst I haven't heard them I would suspect they might be quite self indulgent!

To answer your original post I can't honestly say I like any crossover works that much, i'm with Harry on this one, each to their own.
If you are looking for things to listen to may I recommend Rimsky Korsakovs Tsar Sultan Suite and Scherazade I have played both to friends who aren't classical fiends but most like the immeadiacy of the music, either that or they were just being polite!

Posted on 5 Apr 2012 12:48:24 BDT
Adam, in addition to the numerous excellent suggestions above, another good way of finding your own route into classical music is to listen to a classical radio station (in the UK either Radio 3 or Classic FM), see what stands out for you and follow up the music of those composers further. If you do that and would like more suggestions for further listening, get back to us here and we'll probably provide you with way more than you need!

In reply to an earlier post on 5 Apr 2012 15:05:45 BDT
Last edited by the author on 6 Apr 2012 17:33:26 BDT
Bella says:
Adam: Adam: I tend to avoid contemporary crossover, I do however enjoy the mix of classical, jazz and cabaret that one hears in some 1930s music. A quartet by Pavel Haas, who unfortunately didn't survive the Nazis, even has optional drums!
I would like to see more programs that mix genres, as happens occasionally with contemporary classical, these could help bridge gaps.
At the moment I seem to be going in the reverse direction from you, with a set of Mahler lieder DVDs from Vienna which are introducing me to a chap called Fennesz, who seems to have some kind of connection with rock, though I don't know what category the electronic re-mixes he offers here fall into. He occupies just one DVD and,somewhat to my surprise, I rather like what he does. Since he just uses Mahler as a starting point I doubt whether his explorations would persuade listeners to get into Mahler, but they might find that they liked some of the songs on offer (which are accompanied by atmospheric visuals) on the other DVDs.

Posted on 6 Apr 2012 17:14:48 BDT
Last edited by the author on 7 Apr 2012 23:14:59 BDT
JayJayDee says:
Adam...
Neil Ardley's Kaleidoscope of Rainbows is good.
Still available.
Kaleidoscope of Rainbows

And then there's Le sacre du printemps.
Stravinsky: Ballets
Hendrix would have loved it. Santana does!
Soft Machine's Third Album always struck me as a good crossover attempt. But then anything and everything experimental sounded good in 1970. RAH had it as a prom that year
Third
Not really crossovers as such. But just music with similar qualities of construction

In reply to an earlier post on 9 Apr 2012 12:41:30 BDT
jut1972 says:
Hi Adam,
S&M is a great album.. I have got into classical seriously in the last couple of years so as a relative newbie like yourself I would suggest the Deutsche Grammaphon 111 collections as a starting point. They are the best intros I have heard (I have quite a collection now after spoiling myself :) as they contain all the stuff you will recognise plus plenty you wont and so allow you to hear new works without spending a fortune.

My other recommendation if you like rock is to check out some of the spanish guitar collections, Julian Bream or John Williams and hear some real guitar virtuosity that I am sure James Hetfield would approve of...

Posted on 18 Apr 2012 12:30:57 BDT
T. Anderson says:
hello music lovers in the UK. i'm from the US and was browsing your forums and thought i'd jump in, if you don't mind.

there's a lot of crossover stuff, although most of what i know is older. emerson, lake & palmer have always been a favorite. they did a lot more than pictures at an exhibition, though. they've arranged versions of prokofiev, janacek, ginastera, bach, copeland, ravel, holst. malx: i've only heard his first piano concerto, and i really like it. it is heavily jazz influenced, and emerson certainly shows off, but i'm not sure i'd call it self-indulgent; although, i suppose you could say that when anyone writes a concerto with himself as the soloist, it is by definition self-indulgent. i've never heard or even heard of a 2nd concerto by emerson. the first is called "piano concerto #1," though, so one could assume there is a 2nd; or he may have intended to write one and never did. not sure. it is worth picking up the works volume 1 album for that concerto, though, if you like emerson. carl palmer does a fantastic version of the enemy god dances with the black spirits from prokofiev's scythian suite on that album, as well.

t. franklin: is the deep purple concerto worth picking up? i'm a HUGE purple fan, but for some reason i never got around to picking that up. i have everything else. i think it may have been out of print for a long time, and then when i've run across it, i just wasn't sure. crossover is tricky, especially with hard rock & classical. each can sound ridiculous from the stand point of the other if it is not written & played well. have you heard blackmore's difficult to cure with rainbow? the live version on finyl vinyl is pretty good, other than some balance/sound quality issues.

Posted on 18 Apr 2012 16:12:47 BDT
Nugent Dirt says:
Soz to spoil the party but IMO there've been few more heinous/poncey fusions of genres than hard rock/metal and CM. Terrible mistakes have been made, from The Nice and ELP and other 70s Prog through to what's called symphonic metal, started by Swedish numpty Yngwie Malmsteen and his application of Paganini to the electric guitar. And can it get any more pretentious than for a rock concept album to be split into Acts or movements etc? That said I find transposing some classical piano/organ and violin tunes onto the bass or guitar's good for improving dexterity.

Posted on 18 Apr 2012 16:19:13 BDT
Nugent: Your posting made me laugh out loud. I have very limited experience of concept albums but I was forced to sit through one (out of politeness) based on 'War of the Worlds' - I am sure you know who was responsible, I have forgotten. I haven't forgotten that it was a load of tosh.

Posted on 18 Apr 2012 21:48:50 BDT
jut1972 says:
Adam - have you heard the david garrett rock symphonies stuff? He does covers of Nirvana and Metallica. Interesting but not sure I'd want to listen to too much of it..

In reply to an earlier post on 19 Apr 2012 10:16:14 BDT
Nugent Dirt says:
It was the brainchild of former studio engineer Jeff Wayne I'm afraid to say Geoffrey. Close call there. Indeed it is utter bombastic bilge. Even worse are Rick Wakemen's several concept albums such as Journey To The Centre Of The Earth. Pity and odd because he's a funny and down to earth blokey type of fella and not remotely arty f@rty (watch out Zon). Worst of the lot are po-faced merchants of advanced widdling Dream Theater. They make Yes look like The Ramones. I don't see the need for classical-rock fusion like I don't see the need for Asian fusion restaurants, another modern abomination. Why mix Indian with Thai. After all do we mix sausages and sauerkraut with prawn risotto?

Posted on 19 Apr 2012 13:54:23 BDT
JayJayDee says:
Allegedly hard rock and CM appeal to similar personality types.
The people involved might not have been favourably exposed to the other type of music as a result of stereotyping and cultural biases - both ways - but there was some research about thirty years ago that identifed some striking overlaps (in personality types). Sorry if that doesn't appeal to you. For myself I just like well constructed and passionate music whatever its labelling.

And it could be said that there's crossover/similarity between a Schubert and Paul McCartney song while there is another kind of affinity between Harrison Birtwhistle and some avant-garde rock. But one gets dumped under the CM category and the other in 'Pop'.
Such labelling is often counter-productive.

In reply to an earlier post on 19 Apr 2012 14:35:57 BDT
Last edited by the author on 19 Apr 2012 14:36:23 BDT
Bella says:
JJD: Labelling is indeed a problem, however I have the impression that what is being objected to is a piece of music being re-hashed in an alien format. If I am right (I might not be!) that's very different from programming Schubert and McCartney next each other, something which surely should be encouraged

In reply to an earlier post on 19 Apr 2012 14:59:32 BDT
Nugent Dirt says:
Indeed, it makes me cringe to hear well known CM pieces played on the Hammond organ and other electrical instruments to a backbeat. Some of the most recent offenders are these classically trained crossover artistes in the Vanessa Mae mold playing jazzed up CM pieces on electric violins. Cheap cash-in or what. I'm no CM snob but I dont like to see any classic piece of work - music, film or literature - debased just to appeal to the lowest common denominator. Look what Guy Ritchie's done to Sherlock.

In reply to an earlier post on 19 Apr 2012 17:09:36 BDT
Last edited by the author on 19 Apr 2012 17:53:34 BDT
Bella says:
My cynical view is that most of these people can't make it on their own, so they use works that already have a reputation and can be relied on to attract attention.
On the other hand, I acquired recently, more or less by accident, a composition by a chap called Fennesz which uses Mahler as a starting point; I was worried by the fact that it calls itself a re-mix, however I recognise so little that I assume Fennesz mostly takes his own line. This seems a legitimate activity, not least as a lot of classical composers made use of other people's ideas. I gather Fennesz used to have rock connections, but his music now comes under the electronic umbrella.

Posted on 19 Apr 2012 23:36:11 BDT
JayJayDee says:
I'm not sure if we're talking of re-arrangements or cross over, which I try and differentiate.
Bach would have loved some of the re-arrangements of his music (Sky's effort at Toccata f'rinstance, and Loussier's PlayBach). He was always re-arranging his own stuff. Composers of the past were literally stuck with the available instrumentation, and I see no reason not to re-arrange golden oldies. Whether or not it results in an improvement or an aberration is another matter and as often as not reflects the listener's prejudices as much as the composer's efforts!

I see crossover as the fusion of compositional elements rather than just the orchestration. Like Jon Lord's efforts, Andre Previn's jazz and Nigel Kennedy's Polish work. Out of those three examples I must admit I rather like the gypsy elements in East Meets East

In reply to an earlier post on 22 Apr 2012 17:35:54 BDT
Adam Jackson says:
The Deep Purple Concerto is very good. Def think Jon Lord has something as a composer. Will always offer up the name of Therion for anyone sceptical on Rock & Metal/CM crossover...

In reply to an earlier post on 25 Apr 2012 15:13:20 BDT
Nugent Dirt says:
Fraid I'm a lost cause then Adam as I'm not much of a rock or metal fan to start with and my taste in CM is narrow and mainstream. I've heard enough for me to make up my mind that it's a total non-no.

Posted on 2 May 2012 17:53:19 BDT
Well I'm probably more of a CM dabbler than lover and it's been that way for a long time. Probably because a pice of rock music can quickly be decided on. The Mateallica Black album is the Metallica Black album and that is it. Beethovens 5th can be the moat majestic picof music you've ever heard or it can be the most awful rubbish ever to be laid doan and there are countless other points between the 2 so unless you have the patience of a saint and a lorra. lorra, time, what do you buy.

Rock songs releas3ed by Classical Orcherstra's rarely sound good and should just not be attempted. Similarly a rock group trying to be true to a classical score don't quite manage to cut it. I rather like what ELP did but then they hardly stuck to the script, merelt using it as a jumping off point for their own ideas.

For me symphonic rock works because that is how it iwas written and is meant to be performed. Perhaps listening to an orchestra will make someone investigate the delights of an orchestra uinder it's own steam playing the music that was written for them.

Crossover probaly exists in as much as - and it's been too mant decades for me to remember which now - many a pice played with gusto is pretty akin to being at a rock concert

Posted on 2 May 2012 22:56:44 BDT
Last edited by the author on 2 May 2012 22:57:43 BDT
The best and challenging sort of crossover is when a rock track quotes an element taken from a classical work. Keith Emerson's early works with the Nice and Emerson, Lake and Palmer are notable examples. The heavy chord introduction to Nice's arrangement of "America" (taken from Berstein's Westside Story) are lifted from Dvorak's 9th Symphony (4th movement). ELP's superb "Knife Edge" from their first album has a part of Janacek's Sinfonetta as it's backdrop. No less brilliant is Keith's arrangement of "Touch And Go" from the Emerson, Lake and Powell album which incorporates the middle section of Ralph Vaughan Williams' arrangement of "Greensleeves".

Posted on 3 May 2012 16:43:44 BDT
Last edited by the author on 3 May 2012 16:45:08 BDT
JayJayDee says:
Harold, It's pleasant to encounter familiar elements in an unfamiliar work; so I wonder if that's why it works for you.
I was fascinated by Dave Matthews/Santana's Love of My Life and it took me a while to pin down that it had a transposed phrase from Brahms 3rd Symphony hidden away in the main melody. And then I discovered later on the DvD of Supernatural - but not the CD - it is credited as the inspiration for the song. Only then I researched to find that Carlos Santana had more than a little of classical training. Yet I have enjoyed Santana alongside my classical favorites for forty years now!
And it (the assimilation of classical modes) shows elsewhere in his creations, though I haven't yet identified any other direct quotes.
But I wonder if it's really only the introduction of something familiar that attracts us. Rather like hearing a phrase in Sibelius 5th that reminds us of his second symphony and re-assuring us that we are on familiar turf!
‹ Previous 1 2 Next ›
[Add comment]
Add your own message to the discussion
To insert a product link use the format: [[ASIN:ASIN product-title]] (What's this?)
Prompts for sign-in
 


Recent discussions in the classical music discussion forum (973 discussions)

Discussion Replies Latest Post
What Are You Listening To Right Now II 4996 2 hours ago
Spotify, Pandora and streaming music kills jazz and classical 0 10 hours ago
Help on Karajan box set? 6 2 days ago
A drink of cool May water 15 3 days ago
The death of the forum 168 4 days ago
Is there a DVD of Elgar's "The Kingdom" out there... 12 4 days ago
What Do You Have On Order? 1478 8 days ago
Upcoming releases 257 9 days ago
Heads Up 891 10 days ago
Premature deaths 21 11 days ago
Vivaldi 26 11 days ago
Pristine 10 19 days ago

More Customer Discussions

Most active community forums
Most active product forums

Amazon forums
 

This discussion

Participants:  17
Total posts:  32
Initial post:  14 Nov 2008
Latest post:  4 May 2012

New! Receive e-mail when new posts are made.
Tracked by 2 customers

Search Customer Discussions