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Customer Discussions > christianity discussion forum

Why be christian?

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Showing 201-223 of 223 posts in this discussion
In reply to an earlier post on 12 Oct 2011 10:37:54 BDT
Julian JJ says:

I dare say you're right to an extent, in that some people may be Christians because they like to have simple certainty in a very complex world, and dislike grey areas. However, many Christians, in my experience, are very good at seeing all sides of an issue, are open to the reality of grey areas, etc.

In fact I suggest that the common demand by skeptics that Christians should offer proof in the order of 1+1=2 may also be an obvious symptom of the preference for simple certainty in a complex world. Quite a few of the areas of 'proof' of Christianity are much more properly assessed by weighing up the evidence than by the kind of logic you mention - if you like, more of a humanities approach than a mathematical one - but I've noticed that when presented with such arguments, many skeptics/atheists just don't seem to register it. They seem to prefer simplistic statements, even though they're often inaccurate on quite a basic level. I'm not suggesting all athiests are like that, of course, but some are. The preference for simple certainty is not the sole preserve of religious people.

In reply to an earlier post on 12 Oct 2011 10:47:01 BDT
Pamina Frost says:
Ultrarunner says: "Why be a Christian, because you like to have simple certainty in a very complex world. No grey areas allowed."
Without the grey areas life would not be so interesting, who wants to live in black and white. It is the grey areas that enable God to experience, if we don't have value judgements, you deny God that chance.

Posted on 12 Oct 2011 11:12:21 BDT
Jim Guest says:
It's not that Christians want simple certainty. It's that they perceive their experience of the cosmos as reflecting simple certainty. Black and white are what ultimately exist, and form the ultimate choice. Shades of grey will fly away, so it is more prudent to dispense with them early. And better for this present life, also.

In reply to an earlier post on 12 Oct 2011 11:38:59 BDT
Pamina Frost says:
Jim Guest says: "Black and white are what ultimately exist, and form the ultimate choice. Shades of grey will fly away, so it is more prudent to dispense with them early. "
Yet the opposite happened: shades of grey were acceptable, one church in Rome proclaimed everything was black and white, and now we have 34,000 shades of grey called Christianity.

In reply to an earlier post on 12 Oct 2011 12:03:33 BDT
Jim Guest says:
Can we raise the discussion level above this playground knock-about?

In reply to an earlier post on 12 Oct 2011 12:22:02 BDT
Pamina Frost says:
Jim Guest says: "Can we raise the discussion level above this playground knock-about? "
Yes, but can we have our ball back before you go in for your tea.

In reply to an earlier post on 12 Oct 2011 16:48:24 BDT
Alpha says:
Jim - Sorry, no comprende - weder das erste noch die zweite satz.

In reply to an earlier post on 12 Oct 2011 17:29:25 BDT
Last edited by the author on 12 Oct 2011 17:30:35 BDT
Jim Guest says:
Sorry. Just hailing your answer.

'A Daniel come to judgment' is someone who makes a wise judgment about something that has previously proven difficult to resolve. Shakespeare, Merchant of Venice

In reply to an earlier post on 14 Oct 2011 10:01:17 BDT
Alpha says:
Jim - Great, thanks! I truly enjoy learning something new, everyday...;o).

Posted on 14 Oct 2011 15:54:04 BDT
Jim Guest says:
Same here. One has to learn one thing new each day to try to compensate for the three things you forget. :)

In reply to an earlier post on 14 Oct 2011 21:56:01 BDT
Alpha says:
Jim - LOL...ain't it the truth!

Posted on 14 Oct 2011 22:39:48 BDT
Spin says:
Great. Jim has a fan. God help us....

Posted on 15 Oct 2011 04:08:15 BDT
Ultrarunner says:
Why become a Christian.You are bored and have nothing else better to do with yourself. Then you become a member of a club and can tell the other religions they are no good. Your club can beat theirs any time. Gives you a sense of belonging. So you can commit any crime and say God told me to do it. Then argue about my God is better then yours, so there. Then you can go to Demos with a sign" Jesus saves, peace be upon you." Then hit the policeman attempting to arrest you with the placard. Say words like" filthy Pigs, rot in hell". Feel self satisfied that you are a Martyr for the cause. All adore you. You have gone from being bored, to a he man telling others in a pub about your exploits. You can even quote sayings from the Bible and become an instant expert. Mind you the pay is good. Look at me you can say I was saved, I was a bored sinner. Now I am somebody. You can even hand out Bibles at street corners and be sworn at, giving you a sense of superiority. They the great unwashed need to be saved from boredom and sin. What a sense of achievement. The more you are called Bible basher, the more confident you become. I am like Jesus you think nailed to the cross. In time you will suffer delusions of grandeur, then you strip naked and run around the streets, shouting" I am He, the Lord God". You will then be locked up. Your ego grows so big,you explode with pride.

Posted on 17 Oct 2011 14:14:26 BDT
Ultrarunner says:
Why be a Christian? You have no sense of self.You need to be told what to do.

Posted on 17 Oct 2011 22:04:35 BDT
Julian JJ says:
Hi Ultrarunner,

No doubt what you say is true of SOME Christians - it's bound to be because of the large numbers involved - but of the many I've known I haven't noticed so many who obviously fit your description. I would say many seem to have a good awareness of self and of who they are, and very few indeed give any signs of needing to be told what to do.

But anyway, surely those who actually are Christians are better able to judge their own motives? As it's hard for anyone to perceive accurately the motives of others (because we only see their actions and not their intentions), surely you're running a bit of a risk by making such a confident statement...

Posted on 23 Apr 2012 18:04:15 BDT
There's only one logical, irrefutable reason to become a Christian. . . because one believes Christianity to be true. Truth is not the same thing as usefulness (it may well be that the truth is fatal, or will make us desperately unhappy, or impose all sorts of burdens on us). Nevertheless, an honorable man or woman will never choose to believe anything except the truth, no matter how high the price and no matter what the consequences may be.

That's the simple answer. If you want something more in-depth, (as to why you should accept the particular set of statements known as Christianity to be true, etc) then that's a lengthy answer indeed, for reasons which are quite obvious. If you know anything about logic and proofs, then you know already that one must start from a certain self-evident premise, then logically build upon that, and so forth, and that one must prove one statement at a time, and that it's a painstaking process. It can't be done simply, if that's the type of proof you want.

That said, the process is quite straightforward. The argument almost always founders (one way or the other) on semantics and arbitrary rules of procedure, practically never on facts or logic. All of us are pretty thoroughly agreed on those matters.

Atheism contains what I take to be a fatal self-contradiction, in that, if one believes the only source of his reasoning comes from natural causes (which is exactly what he believes, if he thinks nature is all that exists), then all his thoughts arise from irrational causes and he has not a shred of proof that those thoughts are true or that his reasoning is valid in any way. Nor can he ever have any such proof. The moment we believe someone's thoughts to arise from purely natural causes, we instantly dismiss them as irrational. If atheism were true, then logical reasoning would be invalid. . . .and that is intolerable.

Theism (of most types) solves this otherwise impossible problem. If there is a God who is rational and has existed for all eternity (two very important points), then that God could have given us our reasoning power and we can therefore trust our logic to be valid when we think about Him or other subjects. Otherwise, we can't.

One could then go on to argue about the merits of the various positions within Theism and so forth, but, as I said, it would be a lengthy discussion. My only point was that atheism, strictly speaking, is a fallacy which can be dismissed out of hand.

In reply to an earlier post on 24 Apr 2012 12:52:05 BDT
C fuja says:

Posted on 25 Apr 2012 19:32:27 BDT
Spin says:
Why be christian? Why not? Is it not up to those who deny christian faith to prove their point? If I choose to live according to christian doctrines, is not up to you wise folk to show me where I am wrong?

Posted on 25 Apr 2012 19:51:50 BDT
Spin says:
Prof. The language of science. Yet it cannlot prove any argument against religion...Hmmmmm.. Science fails in terms of its prejudice.....

Posted on 1 May 2012 01:49:42 BDT
Yes why believe in a sick and twisted fantasy book that is just a cover up cult for child abusers

you have no proof part from a fantasy book that your invisible friend is even real

my large goldfish called long tail that farted the earth out is more true than your made up cult

Posted on 16 Jul 2012 16:34:22 BDT
Why not?

In reply to an earlier post on 17 Jul 2012 09:31:03 BDT
G. Heron says:
N. J. Ashton

"p.s. the non-christian is mortal, their soul is not immortal so it is destroyed after judgement, not eternally tormented."

That's a weight of my mind, so for an atheist like me I will die, be judged and my soul destroyed, only Christians will be forced to endure eternal life. Have you noticed that the people who think eternal life is great tend to be people who have never tried it?

In reply to an earlier post on 17 Jul 2012 14:24:20 BDT
Pamina Frost says:
G. Heron says: N. J. Ashton, "p.s. the non-christian is mortal, their soul is not immortal so it is destroyed after judgement, not eternally tormented."

Glad you pointed this out, I had skipped most of the original post.

So now we know for certain that you cannot be saved by accepting Jesus. Like the Jews, you have to be born into your religion, so that you get an immortal soul. This also means that God has pre-selected you to be born holding whatever belief system you hold, so that he can issue you with the correct soul at birth.

Has NJ Ashton published this work do you think? Certainly merits a PhD as a new contribution to knowledge.
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Participants:  32
Total posts:  223
Initial post:  14 Feb 2011
Latest post:  17 Jul 2012

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