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In reply to an earlier post on 29 Dec 2012 14:40:42 GMT
S. Beattie says:
Excuse my flippancy, of course writers are Helen. However to say someone shouldn't express an opinion because they cannot spell, (or even worse write a book) is considerably more annoying then those who complain those who just happen to post the fact they have a released a book.

Grammer is an issue because (in my opinion) it adds individual style, colour and context to the ambiquity of the written word. English is an ever evolving language and if strict grammer rules were followed to the letter? We'd all be writing in Olde English. As an example; assume in a fiction novel a dramatic and story changing text is received. Would the effect be better if it was written in text speak or correct grammer?

It'll be interesting to see the reaction when I post on the 'meet the author' forum to advertise my first 'classic'.

In reply to an earlier post on 29 Dec 2012 15:24:07 GMT
Gordon D says:
It's not possible to write clearly if you don't understand the basics of language (including spelling and grammar, not "grammer"). Anybody who types "...more annoying then..." without realizing that he means "...more annoying than..." is simply announcing to the world that his book(s) will not be worth reading.

In reply to an earlier post on 29 Dec 2012 15:30:33 GMT
S. Beattie says:
[Customers don't think this post adds to the discussion. Show post anyway. Show all unhelpful posts.]

In reply to an earlier post on 29 Dec 2012 16:09:22 GMT
I did not say that you or anyone else ought not express an opinion because they are incapable of spelling correctly, S.Beattie.

If what we write is an accurate reflection of what we think, then how are we to treat slovenly sentences other than evidence of slovenly thinking?

In reply to an earlier post on 29 Dec 2012 16:42:31 GMT
Gordon D says:
Sorry. If there's supposed to be something resembling logic in that post, it was lost on me. How does the fact that you don't recognize that the phrase "more annoying then" is meaningless connect to supermarkets selling wine, etc.?

In reply to an earlier post on 29 Dec 2012 19:37:27 GMT
B. R. Smith says:
Exactly. (I wish I'd said that!)


In reply to an earlier post on 29 Dec 2012 19:53:31 GMT
B. R. Smith says:

I totally agree with you. A writer's job is to write, and that's simple enough, but it's hardly worth writing anything if the very act of communicating annoys the reader. As for S. Beattie's comments about Baroness Thatcher, President Obama, and supermarkets selling wine, I think it is meant to show how false boundaries and rules of grammar are used like shackles to clip the wings of creative thought. I happen to disagree. I think the rules refine the dross.

Brent Smith.

In reply to an earlier post on 29 Dec 2012 20:22:21 GMT
B. R. Smith says:
To S. Beattie.

Grammar adds precisely nothing to style, colour or context. You confuse the meal for the plate it is served on. Grammar and its rules are a universally understood means of communicating thoughts from one individual to another, nothing more, so when you accuse Helen of saying that you ought not to be able to express your thoughts in an ungrammatical manner I think you have missed her point.

Let me put it another way; when Les Dawson or Eric Morecambe sat at the piano to play 'all the right notes but not neccessarily in the right order' it was a stroke of comic genius that cost the viewers nothing. If, on the other hand, I came upon a book that was written in the same style I would feel cheated of the price and probably end up throwing it against the wall.

I do sympathise with anyone suffering dyslexia or the like, but one has to realise one's limits. I would love to dive like Tom Daley, but I know I never shall. Or...don't know's a thought...if I did the training..?

Brent Smith.

In reply to an earlier post on 30 Dec 2012 14:16:17 GMT
S. Beattie says:
Well I'd like to look like Tom Dayley but I can't and I certainly can't dive like him either. But what I can do is train and improve my own personal performance. I loved Motor racing - Nigel Mansell was my hero - I wanted to be like him, like so many others did.

So I took up motor racing via Brands Hatch racing school and did a year long course. I graduated with one of the fastest times set and went on to hold a competition license albeit it for a short period due to finances. I didn't become an F1 champion but I did achieve my own goals and a little success too, in my class.

And the above is relevant to the literary world. Every writer dreams of becoming a best selling Author. Few actually ever will but then should that stop us writing? Also how many Story lines feature the down trodden, unfashionable oik who fights his way through established prejudice to success? Core subject of a good few books I think.

There are of course rules that we have to follow. You can't just go straight into F1 without talent and training and I agree that you cannot release a book full of spelling and grammar errors. That's why we have editors and sub editors. I pay these people to sort out my errors and eventually I will learn.

My book is an Autobiography on a topic never before covered. It is not intended to be a classic, just tell a story. When I post in the `Meet the Author' forum it will be very carefully composed and with great attention. That's he only forum I tend to bother with. Internet forums and chat rooms are a emerging subculture that has now developed it's own literary rules, indeed language. The written word is used but on a computer screen not a book. It is an eclectic mix of raw writing styles and self expression. Anyone who's best retort is to pick up on spelling or grammar errors there, draws derision. They are perceived to be self-opinionated, prejudice and without a point.

You are all writers. When I wrote my book I entered your world. This is an internet forum: welcome to mine.

In reply to an earlier post on 30 Dec 2012 22:48:42 GMT
B. R. Smith says:
To S. Beattie.

Regarding your reply, I agree that to improve oneself is a noble thing. However, you still appear to be confused. On the one hand you say that there are strict rules in, say, motor racing, and on the other hand you seem to think that basic rules of grammar, spelling, and the like can be ignored in favour of 'raw writing styles' simply because the words appear on a screen rather than a sheet of paper. The argument is ridiculous. Newspaper reporters file copy electronically which will be read in physical print the following day, and I doubt their editors would be happy if they filed incoherent or slapdash stories. Similarly with E-Books; people pay for them. Should they then accept something sub-standard compared with a print edition? I think not. Rules exist for the sake of clarity, and clarity is a pre-requisite of successful communication. I really cannot see the problem with that; we seem to have managed the concept since the dawn of civilisation, after all.

You also ask how many storylines have featured the downtrodden, the unfashionable, the oik, who eventually triumphs over all the odds. As you say; lots.

And finally, few of the people on this forum are writers. And as for motor racing, give me Barnarto and his Bentley Boys any time.

Brent Smith.

In reply to an earlier post on 30 Dec 2012 23:35:16 GMT
S. Beattie says:
To B R Smith

Please explain why you cannot see the difference between Book (in whatever format) and internet forum.

Let me explain it this way: Gala dinner - Mcdonalds. You dress up for a Gala dinner but if you went into 'Micky dee's' with a DJ, one would look a bit of a prat.

I would also like to ask, why is it that you have choosen to ignore the fact I have used copy editors for the book. Two in fact. Why not acknowladge that basic fact when so many writers are accused of not doing so.

And regarding your coments re reporters copy, I suggest you view to BBC Sport website; go to Football and read the quotes made by various managers as posted. Not exactly great grammar in the spirit of the thunderer is it?

In reply to an earlier post on 31 Dec 2012 03:17:54 GMT
B. R. Smith says:
To S. Beattie.

Your first point: I cannot see the difference because there is none. Both are published to be read by third parties, and should have clarity.

Your second point: irrelevant. For a formal dinner or a visit to an eating place that I gather has no cutlery, one should dress appropriately; for instance, never, never, wear a wing collar with a dinner jacket.

Your third point: If you want to use copy editors, use them. It is really neither here nor there.

Your fourth point: I never imagined that 'quotes made by various football managers' could share the same sentence with 'great grammar (no such thing; there's only correct or incorrect) in the spirit of the Thunderer.' These people are bad enough when interviewed on the news; one almost needs an interpreter to make sense of their invariably Glaswegian accents.

Why people cannot simply accept that there are right and wrong ways of doing things is a mystery to me.

Brent Smith.

In reply to an earlier post on 31 Dec 2012 15:33:22 GMT
S. Beattie says:
We have to agree to dissagree regards internet forums. As who decides what is 'right or wrong' that must ultimatly come down to who publishes the script.

I have been a member of many forums in the past ten years. All have their own set of rules and some are very strict on expression. none, however, have any rules or guidlines on spelling, punctuation or grammar. I have never seen a post removed, thread pulled or member banned due to breach of English language rules. Amazon I think is no exception.

On forums I kick back and relax. If a few fermented grape-juice supping rep's of the chattering classes take offence, personally all the better ... :)

In reply to an earlier post on 31 Dec 2012 16:15:16 GMT
Presenting slovenly prose is not the best way of persuading others to take you seriously as a writer, S.Beattie. It may give the impression that there is a mediocre mind struggling to express something utterly uninteresting.

Posted on 3 Jan 2013 03:17:21 GMT
Tina Kane says:
[Customers don't think this post adds to the discussion. Show post anyway. Show all unhelpful posts.]

In reply to an earlier post on 6 Jan 2013 19:57:33 GMT
[Deleted by the author on 7 Jan 2013 07:50:02 GMT]

In reply to an earlier post on 6 Jan 2013 19:59:07 GMT
[Deleted by the author on 7 Jan 2013 07:50:13 GMT]

In reply to an earlier post on 6 Jan 2013 20:05:04 GMT
TomC says:
So you believe that annoying your potential customers by crass, boorish self-publicity is a good marketing tactic, do you ?

Peddle your trash elsewhere. It is not welcome here and you know it. It is also expressly forbidden by Amazon, and you know that too. If you persist, however, you may encourage a number of reviews of your "book".

In reply to an earlier post on 6 Jan 2013 20:22:49 GMT
I Readalot says:
Bad poetry is excruciating, the above could easily the Vogon's a run for their money (Hitchhiker's Guide). Of course the spammers know they shouldn't plug their stuff here, they just choose to ignore it and even become abusive to anyone who points out the error of their ways.

In reply to an earlier post on 6 Jan 2013 21:00:14 GMT
Outstanding doggerel, Ma'am.

In reply to an earlier post on 6 Jan 2013 23:37:21 GMT
Marand says:
It is woeful isn't it!

Posted on 7 Jan 2013 03:54:31 GMT
B. R. Smith says:
Brent Smith says:

Look, we all know that Cheryl Lockett Alexander's verses are right down there with the sort of thing one finds in greeting cards, but is it possible she's having a joke? On second thoughts probably not, for she appears to be an American, and the inhabitants of that beacon of culture have not yet discovered irony. Why not try reading the verses aloud while nicely drunk in your local pub, and see how many ribald additions your friends can make, in the manner of 'Eskimo Nell'? What a jolly jape! What fun!

But to Tom C; ah, remember the poor woman's probably posting from a Home for the Bewildered somewhere, so don't threaten her with 'reviews'; she'll think she's on the shortlist for the Booker Prize and write a saga!

Brent Smith.

In reply to an earlier post on 7 Jan 2013 07:31:41 GMT
[Deleted by the author on 7 Jan 2013 07:49:42 GMT]

In reply to an earlier post on 7 Jan 2013 07:44:37 GMT
Sou'Wester says:
We've got shallow minds? Don't know that I believe the last post, but if it is true then you are a despicable cheat and a fraudster who - for some reason - has sought to damage the reputation of this author.

Posted on 7 Jan 2013 08:42:16 GMT
'Cheryl Lockett Alexander says:

Wish I can honestly say I was her. My name is Cheryl Ann Alexander. I found her on facebook. I copied the poem from one of her pages. Thought I'd have a little fun pretending until the haters like Brent Smith started being negative...'
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