If God loves me as much as you say, he won't mind that I blashpheme on a daily basis - I still follow the 10 commandments (pretty much) because its the law/good morals. Maybe when he sees that people don't believe in him anymore, the slacker will work a little bit harder to sort out the mess he created.
...Also, God didn't create any mess, people - men and women AND children are the ones who messed up. Furthermore, since you recognise Him as 'God', you must have some pretty big b*lls calling Him a 'Slacker'. Talk about no fear of God - that is one of the problems in our world today.
All these questions are interesting but if someone is a Calvinistic Protestant they most likely believe that everyone that God wants to be saved will be saved before the end of time as no one can stop his will taking place. So ultimately its not up to us if we are saved or not, its Gods choice. No amount of blaspheming will decide your fate for you if God has already decided to save you. If he has decided to save you he will alight conviction and faith on you. Theology is a bit of a crazy business sometimes..........actually the first step to faith in God is admitting he does exist, even if its in anger. You have a head start on other non-believers (I dont wish to assume you are an unbeliever but it seemed that way from the post.......)
"Talk about no fear of God - that is one of the problems in our world today. "
'god' (lower case 'g' is grammatically correct) is the one problem we do have in today's civilisations and needs to ridiculed form every angle so finally we can rid ourselves of our barbaric ancient views! If your life is based around 'fear of God' then im afraid to say your a very pathetic person indeed. Grow some balls and stop trying to bum-lick something that doesn't exist!!
Fire Crest. Please don't tell me you believe in Heaven and Hell!
Do you honestly?
If so then please correct any mistakes in this logic:
(1) If you accept Jesus as your savior, then you are forgiven for your sins and go the heaven. (2) If you don't do this you go to Hell.
Am I right?
If so Hell is full of Atheists and followers of other religions etc etc. Right? Fair game eh? Disbelieving fools.
But isn't it also full of still-born babies, mentally handicapped people who cannot grasp the concept of Jesus, people who've never heard of Jesus and all the people who lived before he existed on Earth?
Soppose I go to heaven. Does that mean I would have to sit next to Mother Theresa for the next million trillion years? I couldn't think of anything worse. Besides, how could you be happy in heaven if your loved ones were elsewhere! Wilkins 47
No-one will be happy if they don't get into heaven- can you imagine a place where there is only a presence of evil and fear, no light, no love, no joy or peace. That's why God sent his only Son to pay the price that gets us into heaven if we only believe in Him and acknowledge Him as Lord.
"I'd rather be narrow-minded and going to heaven than be open-minded and going to hell"... The response from a preacher when it was suggested that belief in religion was narrow-minded. Broken down into a simpler equation, religious people would rather be ignorantly narrow-minded than be fully educated and open-minded. What's the point of having a discussion with them if they haven't educated themselves? The rest of us had religion rammed down our throats at school during our formative (and gullible) years, and yet - eventually - we STILL had the common-sense to see through the nonsense of it all. I urge all Christians to spend as much time reading the enlightening works of Hitchens, Dawkins, etc, as they have being preached to by people cherry-picking bits of their ancient scriptures in order to justify their life. Then if you pass the test, you can go back to religion and god, and tell him with justifiable awareness, "I am OPEN-MINDED and I STILL believe in you!" But you probably won't have to, because by then you'll have realised the Machiavellian con of it all.
Oh dear, another cliched fire and brimstone response from a God fearer, and another one who seems to delight in the prospect of eternal human suffering. A zealot who professes to follow a peaceful religion, but is all too ready to lapse into medieval hysteria when someone questions their doctrine and invoke those hoary old tenets of damnation.
''3 minutes in hell...no...3 seconds in hell, friend, and I'm sure your tune will change, even if only into a scream!... Better find Jesus, now, before it's too late...He's already found YOU!''
Well Fire Crest, I don't remember Jesus ever hunting people down. It just shows that you don't much knowledge of your own bible, which is just another collection of fables. It seems like Christians like you don't get the message; You'll never convert people with nonsense pulled from ancient myths written by a scientifically ignorant people.
''...Also, God didn't create any mess, people - men and women AND children are the ones who messed up.''
Why are children the ones who messed up, when they have no power to 'mess up'? So, by your religion, even innocent children are to blame. Well, that's one thing Islam has on Christianity I suppose.
''Furthermore, since you recognise Him as 'God', you must have some pretty big b*lls calling Him a 'Slacker'.
It doesn't take balls to insult a fictional character, and I recognise the name because of my cultural background -white and English, not because he is 'special'. I could call Rupert the Bear a ponce, but he hasn't done anything to deserve it, unlike the spiteful, narcissistic, schizophrenic waster that you worship. Why exactly did he decide to kill every living thing on earth save a boat full of animals? It wasn't because people weren't paying him enough attention was it?
''Talk about no fear of God - that is one of the problems in our world today.''
Fearing something that in all likelyhood doesn't exist is an irrational behaviour. I'm not afraid of goblins, or ghosts, or vampires, so why be afraid of another mythical creature? People like yourself should see a shrink, just to help you exorcise the theistic chip on your shoulder.
The only way I could countenance a God from a scientific position is if a creature had somehow survived the annihilation of a previous universe ( bear with me) via the stupendous technological abilities of its species. This creature, or more precisely consciousness, decides that the neoverse (our universe) requires life, and creates it. Because this consciousness has mastered the sciences of trans-dimensional existence (it would have to, as it survived the creation of our universe), it can effectively hide, yet be omnipresent, in a three dimensional universe, as we only have the mathematics to probe hyperdimensional space, not applicable science.
However, This consciousness originated in a previous universe, ultimately evolving from a simple creature, such as an amoeba. To us, the 'creator' would be as a god, but the origins of such a being would be traced to an ancestor that utilised self replicating molecules to prodiuce successive genertions.
In Heaven you will be together with your loved ones (parents), they in turn will be with their parents and children, and so on. Quite a lot of people since the beginning of humankind, all trying to be with THEIR dear ones. No, this idea is impossible.
Hell is full of people who use their free will - given by God - to CHOOSE to live without him. They have CHOSEN to be selfish, jelous, bitter, hateful, fearful, vengeful, ignorant, cruel, manipulative, etcetc... God can not live in a person who has CHOSEN to be evil because God is pure goodness, God is Love, righteous, mercyful, graceful, kind and his will is always good. It is our CHOICE to ask him to help us and save us from the grip of evil. You are his Child and he loves you and he wants you to CHOOSE life, faith, love, forgiveness, kindness, fairness but he wont force you. That is how great his Love is.
As for people who haven't had the opportunity to Choose, they walk with God because they haven't eaten the fruit of knowledge between good and evil.
So an Amazonian rapist and murderer 'walks with God' because he has never heard of him, while an agnostic nurse who spent much of her life in the selfless aid of others goes to hell for ever?
How can a fair and loving god create such an unfair system?
Isn't this just the most extreme form of postcode lottery: Be born into a civilization ignorant of the Christian God, and be automatically granted an eternity of bliss, or be born into a culture aware of the Christian God and be damned to an eternity of torture and pain if you don't believe in him.
If Hell exists, it is full of the well-meaning faithful, simply because they didn't believe in the right God. The Atheists get off lightly in such a case. That is the logical outcome of Pascal's wager.
Too right T. West. The best response to Pascal's wager is to ask "Which God?". Of the thousands of gods we humans have believed in over the millennia, what are the chances that the one you chose to commit to is the right one? At least by abstaining from belief in any deities then the risk of arousing the wrath of an egotistical god (which let's face it most of them are) is lessened. Plus you have the bonus of not spending some of your short time of life on this earth worrying about, or pinning your hopes upon, something that probably doesn't exist.
well colin, i have read christopher hitchens and dawkins books and i am still a believer in god. I am also open minded enough to question and dispel certain religious commands which are counter to the defence of theology. I subscribe to the view that religion is what remains when god's left the room! The calvinists and the vatican would see me as hypocritical or confused but who cares what other flawed humans think? my belief obviously is faith based with no scientific evidence so i will concede that atheists have a winning hand because the onus should be on us believers to reveal the evidence. my views are not however the result of machiavellian introjections from preacher parents, teachers etc. rather it's the considered outcome from empirical research on everything from unexplained phenomenas to the more recent search for the elusive "god particle" at the hadron collider. By the way, atheists and religious fundamentalists are both narrow minded so ironically there is a commonality you both share, academia gets in the way, blue sky thinking is needed.
Hi M. Vallance. Interesting post. Unusually thought-provoking for this forum. But if I may challenge you; You say "my views are not however the result of machiavellian introjections from preacher parents, teachers etc. rather it's the considered outcome from empirical research on everything from unexplained phenomenas to the more recent search for the elusive "god particle" at the hadron collider".
The best test for this assertion is the answer to the question, which (if any) god do you believe in? If you have truly "empirically" settled upon your beliefs without undue influence by anyone, then considering the plethora of gods out there for you to choose from, it is highly unlikely that you empirically chose the one (or one of the ones) that pervade(s) the particular culture you grew up in. So if for example you settled upon the Christian form of god and grew up in the UK or the US, then it is impossible to argue that decision has not been influenced by your surroundings.
I like to turn this argument around and ask how many people who have never come across Jesus believe in him? Of course the answer is 'none'. So belief in Jesus or any other flavour of god depends upon exposure to it...... So I'd argue that no-one truly empirically believes in a particular account of 'god', unless of course they have invented that god themselves.