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Wildsong and The Fates


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Initial post: 29 Mar 2008 10:48:03 GMT
Last edited by the author on 29 Mar 2008 10:49:33 GMT
Stig says:
Well, my copy of 'Wildsong' arrived this morning.
Opening lines.
'Wildsong'.....
The wind was the worst of it thus far.Fierce,relentless,chilling every man among them to the bone in spite of the protective layers of wool and linen and mail.
''How is it the accursed place can look so fertile when winter is upon us?''
'The Fates'......
The wind was the worst so far.Fierce,relentless,chilling everyone to the the bone in spite of the protective layers of wool and linen.
''How is it the accursed place could look so fertile when winter is upon us?''
And closing lines....
'Wildsong'....
''Aye my lord.''A sigh of pure contentment escaped her lips--and her eyes told him all he needed to know.
''It will always be so.''
The Fates....
''Yes my lord.''A sigh of pure contentment escaped her lips--and her eyes told him all he needed to know.''It will always be so.''
And here you are Deborah...
'Wildsong'...
''Would that he had given you a reward closer to home,''Miles grumbled traitorously,his words for Brian's ears alone.
'The Fates'...
''with that would he given you reward close to home.''Josh grumbled traitorously,he said to Nicholas.
Also, just by the by,'Wildsong' is dedicated - 'To my brother,Toby,a dedicated peace officer and a man of honour.'
and 'The Fates' - 'To my mother,my father,and my sister,a caring and loving family-a family with honour....etc'
It says in the back that Catherine Creel is Texan but spent some time living in London.

In reply to an earlier post on 29 Mar 2008 11:02:40 GMT
Last edited by the author on 29 Mar 2008 11:05:24 GMT
Deborah says:
I'm so jealous! - my copy's still somewhere above the Atlantic, I suppose.

I'm very glad, however, that the awful sentence "Would that..." did turn out to be TG's and not Catherine Creel's - how did he manage to mangle it so? Lack of understanding and lack of proofreading, I suppose, although as I recall, from a comments thread long deleted, even when that one was stuck under his nose he refused to admit there was anything wrong with it.

Now confess - are you going to spend the whole day comparing the two? (With suitable breaks to regain sanity) :-) I find that I'm not the slightest bit surprised that they look to be virtually identical so far - are any of us?

In reply to an earlier post on 29 Mar 2008 11:26:38 GMT
Last edited by the author on 29 Mar 2008 11:27:36 GMT
Stig says:
Yep,that's exactly what I'll be doing,sad woman that I am.
I thought you might also like to know that our real hero has at last emerged from planet anachronism;
With respect to Catherine Creel..
'He was not handsome in the pale and aristocratic way so fashionable among the men and women at court.Tall,powerfully built,his features tanned and chiseled and his manner one of supreme confidence,he looked every inch the magnificent warrior that he was.'
It's clear to me even from the little that I've read so far that 'Wildsong',while not necessarily my cup of tea, is a well written book and it is only where Tino has insert ed his changes of time and place, or has attempted to adapt Catherine Creel's text in any way that we get the appallingly illiterate mangling of the English language found in 'The fates.'

In reply to an earlier post on 29 Mar 2008 11:27:44 GMT
Good work, Stig. I'd be interested to know if it's a good read. i.e Did Tino's modifications ruin a good book or was it not really up to scratch to start with?

In reply to an earlier post on 29 Mar 2008 11:27:51 GMT
Boof says:
A family of honour? Are you kidding me Tino? Were you adopted then?

In reply to an earlier post on 29 Mar 2008 12:24:44 GMT
CJ says:
Oh yee ha Stig! Am still waiting for mine but since I don't have the Fates wouldn't be able to do what you are doing. Can't wait to find out if the 'genuine' Turkish/Greek names are, in fact, Irish ones nicked straight from Wildsong..... You must be having so much fun. Am jealous. Here's hoping we can find Catherine soon and get her and her lawyers involved. Also that we can finally prove to Amazon that they are pimping someone else's book under another name. Surely their very slow legal team will have to pull Fates and Circe's song now... Also BTW should we not alert the self-publishers he is using because it must be against their rules and regs as well?

In reply to an earlier post on 29 Mar 2008 12:45:10 GMT
Last edited by the author on 29 Mar 2008 12:48:15 GMT
Stig says:
To be honest Mark (not Twain),I'm not really the right person to review 'Wildsong'.I rarely buy or read 'romantic fiction' and I'm not part of the readership the book is aimed at or written for. After all, I wouldn't have read 'The fates' in the first place if the glowing reviews hadn't given the impression it was a different kind of book altogether.
I haven't read it through properly yet but it seems at first glance to be a (slightly old-fashioned now,) Mills and Boon type story with a very romanticised wild Irish background and the rather formal language and dialogue often found in books of this genre which have a historical setting;characters never say 'we'll' or I'm, always 'we will' or I am,they never 'promise', they 'vow',that sort of thing.
In my opinion it's not a great book but it certainly isn't guilty of the ridiculous anachronisms of its adaptation and it is literate.As I have said in another thread,even if it turns out that Tino has obtained the copyright legally,he has not acknowledged his source and he has managed to wreck another book.

In reply to an earlier post on 29 Mar 2008 12:58:39 GMT
Stig says:
CJ,the names in 'Wildsong' are names like Padraig,Fearghus,Ceara,FatherBeirne,Sorcha and Prince Lionel,Brian,Miles,Alice,Gillian,Ellen and Jenny.
I haven't read it properly yet,(too busy posting on here!) but I think that Nicholas,Josh,david,Keith,Ronald,Frances and Prince Michael are all Tino's.

In reply to an earlier post on 29 Mar 2008 13:00:25 GMT
Deborah says:
So no excuse at all for not giving us decent Greek and Turkish names. Extraordinary.

In reply to an earlier post on 29 Mar 2008 13:00:50 GMT
[Deleted by Amazon on 1 Apr 2008 14:46:18 BDT]

In reply to an earlier post on 29 Mar 2008 13:10:53 GMT
Last edited by the author on 29 Mar 2008 13:11:10 GMT
Stig says:
Sorry,what does that mean?In English please.

In reply to an earlier post on 31 Mar 2008 13:20:23 BDT
Last edited by the author on 31 Mar 2008 13:21:01 BDT
Deborah says:
My copy of Wildsong has arrived!

I've only flicked through, but so far have found the books to be almost identical.

It's strange how normal 'It was heaven on earth' sounds, and how very peculiar 'It was Mount Olympus on earth'!

For those of you who don't have one or the other (or either) of the books, here's an example - if you go to Circe's Song on amazon.com and click surprise me(!), one of the random pages shown is p.84 (you might have to try several times to get it). Compare that with Wildsong, p.94:

...Their eyes locked. "She shall serve as an example to her countrymen, to demonstrate that the English and Irish can live together in peace."
"You ask too much of me!" she protested.
"I think not."
"And the statutes? Will you truly set yourself above them?" For a moment, they had forgotten Gillian.
"Such is not my intent," he assured her once more, his rugged features inscrutable. " I have sworn to serve my king and country, to bring peace to Ballymorna. And that, Ceara Brennan, I will do."

and example on the same page of how TG manages to mangle the English is;

(Wildsong) "If - if it please you, my lord," an astonished Gillian now hastened to intervene...

(Fates/Circe) "If - if it please's you, my lord," an astonished Thalia now hastened to intervene...

Even 'pleases' would have been an understandable change, but 'please's'?

Anyway, I now have my red pen at the ready and a 'do not disturb' sign on the door.

In reply to an earlier post on 31 Mar 2008 13:39:12 BDT
Stig says:
My pen's green.I felt it was more apt.
I've now gone through the first four chapters of the two books , marking my copy of 'The Fates' wherever it replicates 'Wildsong'. It's turned almost completely green so far and most of the bits that aren't green are simply name changes or the insertion of greek mythological references to replace Christian ones, unnecessary changes of course,as 'The Fates is set in the 14th century A.D.
The green bits make sense.

In reply to an earlier post on 31 Mar 2008 13:56:39 BDT
It seems someone has been a very, very naughty boy.

Is it worth scanning a few of the pages with matching wording from both and sending them to Amazon & I-Universe?

In reply to an earlier post on 1 Apr 2008 08:03:40 BDT
CJ says:
Well done Deborah and Stig. Now that we have conclusive proof that The Fates/Circe's Song was essentially copied from Wildsong should we not contact the relevant self-publishing companies and tell them? Assume they have rules about things like this and what we really want is to stop Tino making money out of any more unsuspecting punters. What do we do next?

In reply to an earlier post on 1 Apr 2008 10:46:30 BDT
Deborah says:
I've contacted Amazon.com. Amy's idea of scanning is an excellent one, I think, but I thought Amazon might not need it - they can get their own books! I will see if I can do some scanning, because I think it would be useful to have some of Wildsong as an attachable document for contacting the pubishers. In the meantime I did remind Amazon that CreateSpace (Circe's Song) is an Amazon.com company!

In reply to an earlier post on 1 Apr 2008 11:09:28 BDT
Last edited by the author on 1 Apr 2008 11:10:12 BDT
Flubu says:
Good work - am even keener now to see Wildsong drop through the letterbox so I can read the book in its original form and without TG's ridiculous changes.

Not sure that I can add anything positive here on how to proceed. I haven't found anything on iUniverse's web site, but if Createspace are anything to go by, only the copyright holder is able to make a complaint about infringement:

http://www.createspace.com/Help/Rights/IntellectualProperty.jsp

In reply to an earlier post on 1 Apr 2008 12:35:00 BDT
Last edited by the author on 1 Apr 2008 13:28:03 BDT
CJ says:
Mine just plopped through the letter box. Oooh how exciting! It must have taken him ages to re-type everything is one thing that occurs to me. How tedious and no wonder all those punctuation and spelling mistakes crept in. On first glance absolutely identical from the start.

In reply to an earlier post on 1 Apr 2008 15:24:44 BDT
Deborah says:
Happy reading!

In reply to an earlier post on 2 Apr 2008 13:30:35 BDT
This would all make a wonderful group reading exercise/drinking game.
Everytime time you found identical paragraphs/lines you could take a drink!

Voila! If the book wasn't funny enough as it was with the grievous editing, it would be even more entertaining to read!

Hmmm, starting to wish I had a copy of Wildsong now. Perhaps I could go onto the .com site and review Circe's Song since I haven't had a chance to yet. I could use you-know-who's cunning ploy and write: If you enjoy this book, you'll love Wildsong by Catherine Creel!

In reply to an earlier post on 2 Apr 2008 16:23:38 BDT
CJ says:
Its quite funny really - have not read very far yet but not all the 'made up words' are Tino's.... I quote from page 4 of Wildsong "....he urged his well-trained mount purposefully across the drawbridge and through the gate. Without hesitance, the other men followed."

In reply to an earlier post on 2 Apr 2008 16:25:57 BDT
Posting copyrighted material is a clear violation of Amazon's policy. You have been reported.

In reply to an earlier post on 2 Apr 2008 16:38:11 BDT
Now - and I'm clutching at straws here but - I remember reading somewhere that TG apparently declared - incriminatingly - that he had ripped the work of an unpublished ( - and would-be self-published?) author.

Surely TG's not so arrogant to assume you can take the work of a published author and someone not pick up on it.
Assuming that TG might also be Mr. Devereaux - who announced in his confession that he lost his job from the publishing company he worked for, where - assuming it wasn't a load of bull - he potentially had access to manuscripts or a database of all the different publications and license holders, could he have known if the rights/license for Catherine Creel's book had expired and weren't currently 'owned'?

'Cause, until anyone works out who might have her rights (if it's not still her) it's all a moot point.
It would be nice to have a positive response from a publisher going, 'Yes, she's one of ours!'

In reply to an earlier post on 2 Apr 2008 17:13:37 BDT
Misfit says:
Please show your documentation from Amazon. I believe I've seen tons of reviews on .com from "top reviewers" who quote from the books they're reviewing. Did you report them as well?

In reply to an earlier post on 2 Apr 2008 19:28:58 BDT
Last edited by the author on 2 Apr 2008 20:50:01 BDT
Deborah says:
BH quoted rather heavily from The Fates under my review.

And I see, Randy Wone, that you are the latest Tino incarnation to put up the same old review of Mr Pip that was originally written by Olivia Laing and published in the Guardian.

This is Randy's version - spot the usual habit of changing adjectives etc



1 of 2 people found the following review helpful:
Loved it, 2 April 2008
By Randy Wone - See all my reviews


In the terrorish finale to Waugh's A Handful of Dust, the civilized Tony Last finds himself jailed in a jungle village, forced to spend his days reading Little Dorrit to the inerudite Mr Todd. In the world of Mister Pip, however, reading D1ckens represents liberation for a community ravaged by combat. The winner of the 2007 Commonwealth Prize, Lloyd Jones's novel is set in a village on the Papua New Guinea island of Bougainville during a brutal civil war there in the 1990s. Jones covered it as a journalist, and this delicate fable never shies away from the realities of daily life shadowed by violence. As Matilda, the thirteen year old narrator, begins her story, a blockade has begun. Helicopters circle, the generators are empty and all the teachers have fled. Apart from the presence of pidgin Bibles, civilization might never have touched the village. Loved it!!! I would also recommend, if you missed reading TINO GEORGIOU'S masterpiece--THE FATES, go and read it. Comment (1) | Permalink | Was this review helpful to you?

Now for the original

http://books.guardian.co.uk/reviews/generalfiction/0,,2120646,00.html

I don't know who owns that copyright to that, Randy, but I'm absolutely sure it's not you.
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Discussion in:  The Fates forum
Participants:  13
Total posts:  51
Initial post:  29 Mar 2008
Latest post:  28 Apr 2008

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