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The Self and Its Brain: An Argument for Interactionism
 
 
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The Self and Its Brain: An Argument for Interactionism [Paperback]

John C. Eccles , Karl Popper
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Product details

  • Paperback: 616 pages
  • Publisher: Routledge; New edition edition (23 Feb 1984)
  • Language English
  • ISBN-10: 0415058988
  • ISBN-13: 978-0415058988
  • Product Dimensions: 23.4 x 15.5 x 3.6 cm
  • Average Customer Review: 4.0 out of 5 stars  See all reviews (2 customer reviews)
  • Amazon Bestsellers Rank: 484,837 in Books (See Top 100 in Books)
  • See Complete Table of Contents

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." . . anyone with an interest in philosophy, science, and the future of the world should read it."
-"British Journal of Psychiatry
." . . a massive achievement . . . a theory of beautiful simplicity, with all the relevant data clearly set out down to recent research findings."
-"The Jerusalem Post

Product Description

The relation between body and mind is one of the oldest riddles that has puzzled mankind. That material and mental events may interact is accepted even by the law: our mental capacity to concentrate on the task can be seriously reduced by drugs. Physical and chemical processes may act upon the mind; and when we are writing a difficult letter, our mind acts upon our body and, through a chain of physical events, upon the mind of the recipient of the letter. This is what the authors of this book call the 'interaction of mental and physical events'. We know very little about this interaction; and according to recent philosophical fashions this is explained by the alleged fact that we have brains but no thoughts. The authors of this book stress that they cannot solve the body mind problem; but they hope that they have been able to shed new light on it. Eccles especially with his theory that the brain is a detector and amplifier; a theory that has given rise to important new developments, including new and exciting experiments; and Popper with his highly controversial theory of 'World 3'. They show that certain fashionable solutions which have been offered fail to understand the seriousness of the problems of the emergence of life, or consciousness and of the creativity of our minds.
In Part I, Popper discusses the philosophical issue between dualist or even pluralist interaction on the one side, and materialism and parallelism on the other. There is also a historical review of these issues.
In Part II, Eccles examines the mind from the neurological standpoint: the structure of the brain and its functional performance under normal as well as abnormal circumstances. The result is a radical and intriguing hypothesis on the interaction between mental events and detailed neurological occurrences in the cerebral cortex.
Part III, based on twelve recorded conversations, reflects the exciting exchange between the authors as they attempt to come to terms with their opinions.

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Two things, says Kant near the end of his Critique of Practical Reason, fill his mind with always new and increasing admiration and respect: the starry heavens above him, and the moral law within him. Read the first page
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Most Helpful Customer Reviews
3 of 3 people found the following review helpful
Format:Paperback
The scientific aim of 'The Self and Its Brain: An Argument for Interactionism' is to add to our understanding of minds. Its moral aim is to defend the concept of human values against the perceived dehumanizing effects of materialism, reductionism and behaviourism. The danger of a mechanistic explanation of the mind is that the complete reduction of the mental mind to the physical brain must devalue the mind.

A fair judgment is that this book is a failure in both aims, though any attempt to defend human dignity from intellectual assault is admirable and Karl Popper masterfully clarifies the underlying philosophical issues. Moreover, the Popper parts are clearly and beautifully written, as always.

Karl Popper and John Eccles essentially agree with Rene Descartes' dualistic solution to the body-mind problem, saying that the mind interacts with the body at some place in the brain. There is no evidence for anywhere in the brain where such interactions might take place (Popper and Eccles conjecture it is the frontal lobes) and the notorious logical problems of Cartesian dualism (the infinite regress of a conscious observer in the mind, who needs a conscious observer in his own mind) are not addressed.

The real problem, however, is in the assumption that such attributes necessary for human dignity as the conscious self, free will and rationality must act top-down from a mental world onto the mundane physical brain. Far better (I think) to seek a bottom-up mechanism in which mental attributes emerge from physical brain-processes. A 'modest reductionist' approach like this can none the less affirm the reality of self, free will and reason. It is employed by Daniel C. Dennett in 'Consciosuness Explained' and in 'Freedom Evolves', for example, which say that we have a soul and free will but they are made from the interactions of lots of material parts ('tiny robots').

Part 1 of 'The Self and its Brain' by Karl Popper concerns philosophy and is excellent. Part 2 by John Eccles concerns neurobiology and is unreadable. Part 3 consists of discussions between the two men that have been criticised as somewhat obscure (I do not find them so) but Popper's contributions are the more coherent and interesting.

This book is worthwhile for Popper's examination of the underlying philosophical issues and for its Quixotic attempt to save human dignity and human meaning from 'materialism', even though they are not really under threat.
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2 of 3 people found the following review helpful
Format:Paperback
I recommend this book for anyone who is interested in the mind/body problem and also for convinced materialists.

Karl Popper's part of the book is fantastic. The focus of Popper's work is the critique of materialism and "essentialism", the idea that the universe can be reduced to one or many "substances". Popper suggests that essentialism should be given up in the mind/body debate, giving detailed scientific and philosophical reasons. This undermines both Cartesian dualism and materialism.

Popper presents his plural interactionistic "three world" theory, containing the physical world, the mental world and the cultural world. This theory is also covered in his books "the Open Universe" and "Objective Knowledge". Unfortunately, Popper's "three world" philosophy has made little impact.

However, the brilliance of Popper is weighed down by a ridiculus Eccles section. This part is simply incomprehensible, unless one has a degree in neuroscience. I cannot understand the level of detail in this section.

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14 of 14 people found the following review helpful
A classic and actual book in the mind-body problem 4 Sep 2010
By Born to Lose - Published on Amazon.com
Format:Paperback|Amazon Verified Purchase
Popper does not need any presentation, nor any apologetics. I just pretend to say a few words about this impressive book under the prism of the current mind-body philosophy.

I asked to my professor of mind-body philosophy if I could study Popper, and he told me "no, no, he is too complicated with his 3 worlds theory". Instead, he wanted me to study Kim Jaegwon, the hey day mind-body philosopher. I did it, but Kim represents a very narrow philosophy, in my opinion. Finally, I went to Popper, and I feel like home. I tell you why. Excellent and plain prose, focusing on the central problems from the very beginning, and impressive understanding of vast regions of knowledge, Popper does not hesitate in emitting a judgment about a certain theory, a humanistic thought.

His opponents will say that is a personal book, somehow oldie, overcome by recent books. But I don't agree. You will find in Popper a sound critic of: materialism as the deafault position in mind-body philosophy; a very interesting critic to the identity theory; interesting thought and critics about philosophical reduction; why does not help to equate minds to computers; how we are to understand correctly perception; etc. All this critics are still very pertinent to current mind-body philosophy. Popper is all the time offering arguments: I don't like that argument because of that; I like it because of that; that's my argument in defence of my position, etc. (Compare it with the ugly and difficult prose of Kim, for instance, where you are to find arguments camouflaged in a vegetation of long dissertations on history and ontology, whatever this words my be.)

On the other hand, Popper offers also his positive solution, a very interesting one which, I believed, needs to be considered carefully and with sympathy.
8 of 9 people found the following review helpful
A FASCINATING INTERACTION BETWEEN A FAMOUS NEUROSCIENTIST AND A NOTED PHILOSOPHER 15 Sep 2010
By Steven H. Propp - Published on Amazon.com
Format:Paperback
John Eccles (1903-1997) was an Australian neurophysiologist who shared the 1963 Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine for his work on the synapse. Karl Popper (1902-1994) was an Austro-British philosopher and a professor at the London School of Economics, and one of the greatest philosophers of science of the 20th century.

They state in the Preface to this 1977 book, "The problem of the relation between our bodies and our minds, and especially of the link between brain structures and processes on the one hand and mental dispositions and events on the other is an exceedingly difficult one. Without pretending to be able to foresee future developments, both authors of this book think it improbable that the problem will ever be solved, in the sense that we shall really understand this relation. We think that no more can be expected than to hope to make a little progress here or there. We have written this book in the hope that we have been able to do so." They go on to state, "it may be well to mention at once one important difference between the authors: a difference in religious belief. One of us (Eccles) is a believer in God [he was Catholic] and the supernatural, while the other (Popper) may be described as an agnostic."

Here are some representative quotations from the book:

KP: "The most reasonable view seems to be that consciousness is an emergent property of animals arising under the pressure of natural selection (and therefore only after the evolution of a mechanism of reproduction)."
KP: "We know that, but we do not know HOW, mind and body interact; ... Nor do we know how mental events interact, unless we believe in a theory of mental events and their interaction which is almost certainly false: in associationism."
JE: "One of us---at 18 years old---had a sudden overwhelming experience. He wrote no account of it, but his life was changed because it aroused his intense interest in the brain-mind problem. As a consequence he has spent his life in the neural sciences with some continuing involvement in philosophy."
JE: "It can be claimed that the strong dualist-interactionist hypothesis that has been here developed has the recommendation of its great explanatory power. It gives in principle at least explanations of the whole range of problems relating to brain-mind interaction. It also aids in the understanding of some aspects of memory and illusion and creative imagination... But most importantly it restores to the human person the senses of wonder, of mystery and of value."
KP: "(A)s fas as parallelism CAN be achieved, we should try to get parallelism between mind and matter; only it breaks down somewhere, and interaction has to come in. Of course, we should at first operate with a kind of minimum interaction."
JE: "So I am constrained to believe that there is what we might call a supernatural origin of my unique self-conscious mind or my unique selfhood or soul; and that gives rise of course to a whole new set of problems... By this idea of a supernatural creation I escape from the incredible improbability that the uniqueness of my own self is genetically determined. There is the experienced self that requires this hypothesis of an independent origin of the self or soul, which is then associated with a brain, that becomes my brain. That is how the self comes to act as a self-conscious mind, working with the brain in all the ways that we have been discussing, receiving and giving to it and doing a marvellous integrating and driving and controlling job on the neural machinery of the brain."
A satisfying meal for the mind 2 April 2012
By Les Brighton - Published on Amazon.com
Format:Paperback
Some books are argument-driven: the writer has a strong point and the book develops the argument in a linear way, step by step. Others offer an unfolding framework of ideas, facts and reflections that give the reader the material and the tools to do their own thinking alongside the author or authors. This book is of the second kind. The threefold structure is explained in other reviews: Popper's philosophical discussion of the brain/mind (or, as I think he would put it brain/self) problem; Eccles's unpacking of the neurophysiology of the brain, which provides the physical structures out of which and upon which the phenomenon of perception, thought and self-awareness operate; and the final series of dialogues between the two, which bring together and clarify the first two sections, and seek to go further in thinking about what this all means. This is not a hard-driven thesis (though a thesis is certainly offered); rather it is an extended reflection and exploration of both idea and experiment that is in its way even more engaging.

The book is over 30 years old now, but this should not put potential readers off. Popper is as amiable and encyclopedic as ever. One of the things I appreciate about him is that he dialogues with thinkers through the whole of the tradition: Pythagoras or Hippocrates may be invoked with as much interest and respect as Hume or Kant or more recent thinkers and experimenters. When reading Eccles one has to be aware of the passing of time since his section was written - the comparatively few references to genetics, for example, are an indication of that. However, while this section would not be written in precisely the same way today, it is still an admirable explanation of the basic geography and function of the structures of the brain. That basic framework has been built upon in the years since, but not altered in its fundamental contours. For a beginner it still provides an excellent introduction. Despite the apparent complexity of the material (recognised by short summaries at the start of each section) I would strongly recommend persevering to read it all, both because of the inherent fascination, but also because the experiments and discoveries which Eccles recounts provide key information upon which the final discussions are based. Eccles is strongly critical of theorists who pontificate upon the brain/mind problem without having understood the structures and the mechanisms, and this middle section certainly demonstrates why he is correct in this. The third section is conducted with wonderfully gentlemanly restraint: "I think that is such an excellent summary, Karl. While I agree with you, I'd just like to say...." And so on! The two authors do in fact agree in general principle if not in detail, and that is one of the strengths of the book: it presents a steadily mounting and for me, ultimately convincing case. On the other hand I would like to have heard the authors in genuine dialogue with someone who held a different (e.g. a parallelist) view: the challenge in that case would have been to hold the book together! However, we have what we have, and it is a rich and satisfying exploration.

I should finally note what is implicit in the title, that Popper and Eccles both hold to an emergent view of evolution (if you are unfamiliar with the idea of emergence see among others Michael Polyani, 'Life's Irreducible Structure', Science 160, p.1308; Klapwijk, Purpose in the Living World; Alister Hardy, The Living Stream), that is, evolution at particular points approaches boundary conditions beyond which an intensification occurs and life breaks through to a new level which is thereafter not reducible to or explicable solely in terms of the preceding conditions. A review cannot hope to do justice to such an understanding: suffice to say that Eccles and Popper understand the emergence of the self-conscious mind to be an example of such transcendence. The mind, in their view, while a product of the brain and dependent upon the brain for its existence, cannot be reduced to the biology and physiological processes of the brain. They demonstrate that position on both philosophical and neurological grounds, to my mind (smile) quite conclusively. If that kind of careful, detailed examination of a fundamental problem interests you, then read this book.
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