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Game Information
- Platform: Xbox 360
- BBFC Rating:
Suitable for 12 years and over. Not for sale to persons under age 12. By placing an order for this product, you declare that you are 12 years of age or over. - Media: Video Game
- Item Quantity: 1
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Product Description
Platform: Xbox 360
Manufacturer's Description
PES 2012 continues KONAMI’s determination to listen to its fanbase and make key improvements to the aspects the audience demands. Thus, the focus for PES 2012 is to ensure the highest level of playability, challenge and realism for the game, whilst also improving the level of control offered to users. Fundamental changes to all areas of its AI have been made following user feedback. Similarly, teamwork is central to how the game moves and feels, enabling fans to replicate anything they would see in a real match.Active AI: PES 2012 strives to recreate the movement and team ethic of real football, and Active AI plays a vital role in this. Players will no longer flock to a ball, but will make intelligent runs to create space and draw markers, while others will make themselves available, instigate runs, and visibly call for the ball. In the box, support players will make diagonal decoy runs, full backs will overlap on the wings and midfielders will provide support from behind the ball. The new Active AI routines ensure the flow of a match is more natural, with specific routines for both attack and defence. Hold-up play implemented last year has been improved for easier control with more effectiveness. Defending as a unit plays a key role, and players now hold a tight line, check on the distance between each other, track back as a unit, and fill in for each other. As individuals they also make better decisions to close space, block and tackle.
Jostling: Physicality is a key component in PES 2012, with player strength one of their key individual attributes, and having a vital effect on how they can use their strength to win the ball in a one-on-one situation. Players now fall depending on how they are challenged, with more realistic animations used to show the challenges between two jostling players.
Graphics: Several aspects of the game have enjoyed a huge overhaul. Player facial expression is now much richer and the lighting effects are more natural, while new cameras show off the huge variety of pitch-side movement, with more detail on and around the game than ever before.
Off The Ball Control: Equally key to opening up PES 2012 is the ability to highlight any player at any time. A new system has been implemented, allowing users to switch players with ease. In defence, the right stick is now used to select any outfield player, while set pieces are also enhanced through its use. Goal kicks, corners, free kicks and throw-ins now let the user quickly take control of any player off the ball, enabling clever runs which create space for an attack.
Referee AI: Referees are also crucial to general game flow and their AI has been greatly enhanced to ensure fewer interruptions to play. Decisions are improved, and advantage is played much more regularly in offside and free kick scenarios. As such, refs will only intervene when truly necessary, but they will show cards if necessary once play has broken down.
Pass Support: Accessed through the new personal player settings, Pass Support allows users to determine the level of AI assistance when passing the ball. Players can opt for one of five settings from full support, right up to full veteran setting which switches off all assistance so that the direction, weight and speed of every pass is at their disposal
Product Description
PES 2012 continues Konami's determination to listen to its fanbase and make key improvements to the aspects the audience demands. Thus, the focus for PES 2012 is to ensure the highest level of playability, challenge and realism for the game, whilst also improving the level of control offered to users. Fundamental changes to all areas of its AI have been made following user feedback. Similarly, teamwork is central to how the game moves and feels, enabling fans to replicate anything they would see in a real match.
- Active AI: PES 2012 strives to recreate the movement and team ethic of real football, and Active AI plays a vital role in this. Players will no longer flock to a ball, but will make intelligent runs to create space and draw markers, while others will make themselves available, instigate runs, and visibly call for the ball. In the box, support players will make diagonal decoy runs, full backs will overlap on the wings and midfielders will provide support from behind the ball. The new Active AI routines ensure the flow of a match is more natural, with specific routines for both attack and defence. Hold-up play implemented last year has been improved for easier control with more effectiveness. Defending as a unit plays a key role, and players now hold a tight line, check on the distance between each other, track back as a unit, and fill in for each other. As individuals they also make better decisions to close space, block and tackle
- Jostling: Physicality is a key component in PES 2012, with player strength one of their key individual attributes, and having a vital effect on how they can use their strength to win the ball in a one-on-one situation. Players now fall depending on how they are challenged, with more realistic animations used to show the challenges between two jostling players
- Off the ball control: Equally key to opening up PES 2012 is the ability to highli
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Customer Reviews
Most Helpful Customer Reviews
23 of 25 people found the following review helpful
Platform for Display:Xbox 360
Fun:
On the surface, PES 2012 is the usual affair from Konami. They have updated some game components that need updating. They have left some components alone when they should have given them attention, and they have also made some things worse. For PES lovers, this is nothing new, the good news is that the gripping on field actions is still pretty good.
FOR BETTER.
Animation. Some of the animation (but not all parts!) has been tweaked nicely. The ball physics is on the whole a little better, especially when shooting and when dribbling. The ball bobbles about a bit more, usually just for effect - but the swerve and dip on shots is a little more realistic now. As is the free kicks and penalties (one of the worst parts of PES 2011). Subtle enhancements to body movement when tackling, passing, jumping etc are nice to see and the majority of on pitch player movement is perfectly reasonable to the eye.
Flowing attacks - it's still very pleasing to combine a few quick passes with some judicial use of the R2 button to send players forward. I'm still not convinced though, that runs are made in the most enthusiastic of fashion - but PES still delivers in it's ability to create chances and goals from every conceivable angle.
Possession play. You can make a great deal of posession work now by using deft passes in the midle of the pitch. Better than before. And ususally, if you time it correctly, you can then try a quick attack. Ala Barca. Bt you need the player to do it.
Player skill. Last year saw the best interpretation of player skill - and I think they've done a good job this year too. You will learn not to attempt 30 yarders with just anybody, and you will not just waltz into the box after a 40 yard run and take it round the keeper. You will, however, notice a better experience with long passes (from good long passers) and a quick mental calculation before you use a below average short passer to make a crucial pass across the pitch. Crosses are nicer, through balls are nicer, and quick passing is nicer as well. I tip my hat to the passing element of PES 2012.
FOR WORSE.
Shooting accuracy (UPDATED). After many hours of gameplay I can absolutely hands down admit that the directional shooting is sometimed blatantly at odds with the what your personally inputting into the 360 controller. Bizarre as it sounds - on a significant number of occasions your attacker (even a very skilled attacker) can be aimed to shoot at the right hand side of the goal - but the ball flies off to the left. And vice versa! I can't find a pattern, a reason, or a solution. It can happen from any distance or angle. Seems to only apply to regular shots from the run but am sure it has affected headers too - albeit these were players with average heading ability. The point is - if you are going to fluff a shot to the right then please miss to the right - but to have the shooting apparently reversed at random is plain bonkers.
Player physics (UPDATED).
My major gripe (and this goes back to PES 3) - why oh why oh why do we need to put up with the fact that on a significant number of occasions, our players will get barged off the ball and go into a 720 degree pirouette, allowint the opposition to take control and gain 20 or 30 yards up the pitch before our frozen in surprise team amtes can readjust and close them down? I thought Konami had sorted all that out in the last couple of iterations. There is no need to have this in the game unless it's absolutely fairly doled out - and it isn't.
We were told ages ago by a friendly smiling Konami that: no longer will sluggish defenders magically catch up with speedy attackers (like the cops in Need for Speed Hot Pursuit) - well sorry guys but that's a bit of a lie. The speed differential between speedy attackers and muscly defenders is evident, but if (which is often) your attacker gets caught by a muscly defender - then you can be sure that they will "tag on" and first, slow your attacker down and second, simply take the ball back. Unless your attacker has very high combination of dribbling, speed and balance - mediocre defenders are likely to win the ball even on occasions when you pull out a bag of tricks. This wouldn't be hard to take if they just stuck a foot out and knocked the ball out of play - but the constant superglue shoulder barging, followed by immediate ball control from a lump of a centre half - does grate slightly. There seems to be a tipping point between players who will get past a defender easily, versus players who will rarely get past the same guy. There is also still an element of crowding out by 6 or 7 defenders at a time, even when the opposition (CPU) is going full attack. You should have fixed it and you havent.
Momentum. We all know about it. We all see it in every day life. If Jan Molby went steaming into the box on a late run - you could see the eyes in the Kop widen as the Liverpool faithful tried to back up in the stand. Jan had a lot of momentum - and you knew he'd take that bit longer than anybody else in the side to stop, never mind stop and turn. Or indeed, stop, turn, and then accelerate to catch up with the opposition. Yet, stunningly, this is how Jan Molby would play in PES 2012. As Messi or Ronaldo comnplete a double shuffle and go skipping past him at near top speed - he would magically stop mid tackle, turn 180 degrees, and then stupefyingly catch up with them to win the ball back. This simply doesn't happen with a player controlled team mate. Now I stress with hands aloft that this doesn't happen 'all the time' but it happens anough to make you want to shout like a kid at the screen. All of the momentum should be applied equally.
Lower team players. To be brief - not all players outside of the major Euro leagues are rubbish. Point in case - Allan MacGregor and Emilio Izaguirre. These guys play for Glasgow's Old Firm clubs and are two of the top goalkeepers and left backs (respectively) in the UK. You wouldn't think it from looking a their player stats though. I think more work has to be done to recognise individual talent outsiode of big clubs and not just bias the game completely by underscoring all of the lower ranked team's players (gets off soap-box).
FOE PES SAKE.
Music. Honestly. Usually I don't mind the use of music in the menus or highlights, and normally Konami has either a decent selection of licenced music from a variety of artists, or some made up nonsense that sounds like a mix between crasy Japanese classic rock and B Rate Euro-dance - but the current selection of "tunes" is pretty bad. At best they are an annoying inconvenience that do not add to the atmosphere.
Strips. Strip editing is slightly better than last year but a bit more detail, a couple of extra layers and a wider choice of number fonts would be nice for the enthusiast (you know who you are!) - but overall it's an improvement.
Crowd. They are still there in their summer and winter finery. They now wear your strip (cool) and they still cheer and boo when required. I still think the crowd noises could be more visceral however, and the in-game crowd movements could be enhanced too.
Replays. Better. Better camera angles (thank the lord) which make all the difference.
Goal celebrations. More chocie but I'd still like to see more group shouts where the team all bond, and more varied camera angles where the celebration is set against the back drop of the fans. It's important, darn it.
Pre match. Yes - it's beeen updated with players jogging on the pitch and groundkeepers forking the ground. Thanks boys.
Referees. More balanced? Perhaps if you are being fouled, but not if you are the one doing the fouling. This may be to do with me getting to grips with the more subtle press and tackle method, combined with the physical attributes of the players - jury is out.
2nd player control. Good for short free kicks or distant ones where you just need to find a quick pass. I have scored from a header from a corner using 2nd player control but I'm not sure if I felt it was a bit fake looking. Time will tell - but the system works from a technical standpoint - so golf applause is probably owed to Konami for giving it a bash.
Goalkeepers. They are better but still too many dodgy rebounds for me. Kick outs are better though.
Tactics. The all important in-game switch between an attacking 4-4-2 and a cagey 4-5-1 counter attack has always been the game's strongest point for balanced gameplay. The tactics are now semi-autonomous for the most part. I dont't feel as in control as I used to - but I've still to work out for sure if that's just me and my in-grained feelings. Time will tell.
Master League (UPDATED). The core elements of Master League are the same as they have been since the days of yore.
The addition of cut scenes and managerial involvement between games is not very well executed. Some of the manager's office conversations reflect the existing knowledge of the game (fatigue, tranfer listed players or coach opinions etc) but the press conferences and the general variation of dialogue with staff is awful. The chairman interference is a bit silly and I don't think it projects most clubs chairman influence appropriately.
The transfer system seems to be well balanced and ability to sign players seems very fair depending on their availability and your current squad depth. The one potential (major) flaw I have found is the Master League training. I am now on my third test campaign and it seems that (for the first few months at the very least) even a top £5M rated trainer will not be able to improve the stats of the squad. I have tried different trainers, different blends of players and different teams, and I have also paid attention to rotating the training scheme in various ways to get the best out of the players. Read more ›
FOR BETTER.
Animation. Some of the animation (but not all parts!) has been tweaked nicely. The ball physics is on the whole a little better, especially when shooting and when dribbling. The ball bobbles about a bit more, usually just for effect - but the swerve and dip on shots is a little more realistic now. As is the free kicks and penalties (one of the worst parts of PES 2011). Subtle enhancements to body movement when tackling, passing, jumping etc are nice to see and the majority of on pitch player movement is perfectly reasonable to the eye.
Flowing attacks - it's still very pleasing to combine a few quick passes with some judicial use of the R2 button to send players forward. I'm still not convinced though, that runs are made in the most enthusiastic of fashion - but PES still delivers in it's ability to create chances and goals from every conceivable angle.
Possession play. You can make a great deal of posession work now by using deft passes in the midle of the pitch. Better than before. And ususally, if you time it correctly, you can then try a quick attack. Ala Barca. Bt you need the player to do it.
Player skill. Last year saw the best interpretation of player skill - and I think they've done a good job this year too. You will learn not to attempt 30 yarders with just anybody, and you will not just waltz into the box after a 40 yard run and take it round the keeper. You will, however, notice a better experience with long passes (from good long passers) and a quick mental calculation before you use a below average short passer to make a crucial pass across the pitch. Crosses are nicer, through balls are nicer, and quick passing is nicer as well. I tip my hat to the passing element of PES 2012.
FOR WORSE.
Shooting accuracy (UPDATED). After many hours of gameplay I can absolutely hands down admit that the directional shooting is sometimed blatantly at odds with the what your personally inputting into the 360 controller. Bizarre as it sounds - on a significant number of occasions your attacker (even a very skilled attacker) can be aimed to shoot at the right hand side of the goal - but the ball flies off to the left. And vice versa! I can't find a pattern, a reason, or a solution. It can happen from any distance or angle. Seems to only apply to regular shots from the run but am sure it has affected headers too - albeit these were players with average heading ability. The point is - if you are going to fluff a shot to the right then please miss to the right - but to have the shooting apparently reversed at random is plain bonkers.
Player physics (UPDATED).
My major gripe (and this goes back to PES 3) - why oh why oh why do we need to put up with the fact that on a significant number of occasions, our players will get barged off the ball and go into a 720 degree pirouette, allowint the opposition to take control and gain 20 or 30 yards up the pitch before our frozen in surprise team amtes can readjust and close them down? I thought Konami had sorted all that out in the last couple of iterations. There is no need to have this in the game unless it's absolutely fairly doled out - and it isn't.
We were told ages ago by a friendly smiling Konami that: no longer will sluggish defenders magically catch up with speedy attackers (like the cops in Need for Speed Hot Pursuit) - well sorry guys but that's a bit of a lie. The speed differential between speedy attackers and muscly defenders is evident, but if (which is often) your attacker gets caught by a muscly defender - then you can be sure that they will "tag on" and first, slow your attacker down and second, simply take the ball back. Unless your attacker has very high combination of dribbling, speed and balance - mediocre defenders are likely to win the ball even on occasions when you pull out a bag of tricks. This wouldn't be hard to take if they just stuck a foot out and knocked the ball out of play - but the constant superglue shoulder barging, followed by immediate ball control from a lump of a centre half - does grate slightly. There seems to be a tipping point between players who will get past a defender easily, versus players who will rarely get past the same guy. There is also still an element of crowding out by 6 or 7 defenders at a time, even when the opposition (CPU) is going full attack. You should have fixed it and you havent.
Momentum. We all know about it. We all see it in every day life. If Jan Molby went steaming into the box on a late run - you could see the eyes in the Kop widen as the Liverpool faithful tried to back up in the stand. Jan had a lot of momentum - and you knew he'd take that bit longer than anybody else in the side to stop, never mind stop and turn. Or indeed, stop, turn, and then accelerate to catch up with the opposition. Yet, stunningly, this is how Jan Molby would play in PES 2012. As Messi or Ronaldo comnplete a double shuffle and go skipping past him at near top speed - he would magically stop mid tackle, turn 180 degrees, and then stupefyingly catch up with them to win the ball back. This simply doesn't happen with a player controlled team mate. Now I stress with hands aloft that this doesn't happen 'all the time' but it happens anough to make you want to shout like a kid at the screen. All of the momentum should be applied equally.
Lower team players. To be brief - not all players outside of the major Euro leagues are rubbish. Point in case - Allan MacGregor and Emilio Izaguirre. These guys play for Glasgow's Old Firm clubs and are two of the top goalkeepers and left backs (respectively) in the UK. You wouldn't think it from looking a their player stats though. I think more work has to be done to recognise individual talent outsiode of big clubs and not just bias the game completely by underscoring all of the lower ranked team's players (gets off soap-box).
FOE PES SAKE.
Music. Honestly. Usually I don't mind the use of music in the menus or highlights, and normally Konami has either a decent selection of licenced music from a variety of artists, or some made up nonsense that sounds like a mix between crasy Japanese classic rock and B Rate Euro-dance - but the current selection of "tunes" is pretty bad. At best they are an annoying inconvenience that do not add to the atmosphere.
Strips. Strip editing is slightly better than last year but a bit more detail, a couple of extra layers and a wider choice of number fonts would be nice for the enthusiast (you know who you are!) - but overall it's an improvement.
Crowd. They are still there in their summer and winter finery. They now wear your strip (cool) and they still cheer and boo when required. I still think the crowd noises could be more visceral however, and the in-game crowd movements could be enhanced too.
Replays. Better. Better camera angles (thank the lord) which make all the difference.
Goal celebrations. More chocie but I'd still like to see more group shouts where the team all bond, and more varied camera angles where the celebration is set against the back drop of the fans. It's important, darn it.
Pre match. Yes - it's beeen updated with players jogging on the pitch and groundkeepers forking the ground. Thanks boys.
Referees. More balanced? Perhaps if you are being fouled, but not if you are the one doing the fouling. This may be to do with me getting to grips with the more subtle press and tackle method, combined with the physical attributes of the players - jury is out.
2nd player control. Good for short free kicks or distant ones where you just need to find a quick pass. I have scored from a header from a corner using 2nd player control but I'm not sure if I felt it was a bit fake looking. Time will tell - but the system works from a technical standpoint - so golf applause is probably owed to Konami for giving it a bash.
Goalkeepers. They are better but still too many dodgy rebounds for me. Kick outs are better though.
Tactics. The all important in-game switch between an attacking 4-4-2 and a cagey 4-5-1 counter attack has always been the game's strongest point for balanced gameplay. The tactics are now semi-autonomous for the most part. I dont't feel as in control as I used to - but I've still to work out for sure if that's just me and my in-grained feelings. Time will tell.
Master League (UPDATED). The core elements of Master League are the same as they have been since the days of yore.
The addition of cut scenes and managerial involvement between games is not very well executed. Some of the manager's office conversations reflect the existing knowledge of the game (fatigue, tranfer listed players or coach opinions etc) but the press conferences and the general variation of dialogue with staff is awful. The chairman interference is a bit silly and I don't think it projects most clubs chairman influence appropriately.
The transfer system seems to be well balanced and ability to sign players seems very fair depending on their availability and your current squad depth. The one potential (major) flaw I have found is the Master League training. I am now on my third test campaign and it seems that (for the first few months at the very least) even a top £5M rated trainer will not be able to improve the stats of the squad. I have tried different trainers, different blends of players and different teams, and I have also paid attention to rotating the training scheme in various ways to get the best out of the players. Read more ›
2 of 2 people found the following review helpful
Platform for Display:Xbox 360
Fun:
Before I start I'd like to qualify this review by pointing out that I have only had the chance to play this new version of Pro Evo over the past week, therefore those of you who have played it much more will undoubtedly find fault with what I write.
I have bought, played and mastered every version of International Superstar Soccer and Pro Evolution since its inception in the nineties. I have loved it and place the series easily in my top three favourite games of all time. The frustrating thing about PES is that Konami often fail to heed the complaints of its faithful gaming clientel. PES 2012 has sadly declined to address a lot of the issues (again) which are currently holding this franchise back from being the best once again. I will just summarise the points which I find good and bad to make this quick and painless:
Positives:
+ graphically fantastic
+ improved player A.I. and personality (players get angry if not played regularly)
+ keeps that satisfying PES feeling of slotting into the back of the net
Negatives:
- the "much catalogued" sprinting bug (see almost all other reviews)
- often VERY questionable refereeing decisions leave you frustrated
- very little control over goalkeeper (minimal control over distance/direction of dropkicks and throws)
- stats of players decrease immensley when played out of position (I realise what Konami are trying to do here, but, playing Gareth Bale on the right wing for example wouldn't automatically make him twice as slow in real life, would it?)
It's not a bad game but I think that given the amount of competition from the FIFA brand (which I have also played this year) that Konami really need to do better and address many of these niggly issues which have left a large number of people disappointed. I remain a PES faithful, but for how long?...I think PES 2013 will answer that for me once and for all. Come on Konami, turn my frown upside down please!!
I have bought, played and mastered every version of International Superstar Soccer and Pro Evolution since its inception in the nineties. I have loved it and place the series easily in my top three favourite games of all time. The frustrating thing about PES is that Konami often fail to heed the complaints of its faithful gaming clientel. PES 2012 has sadly declined to address a lot of the issues (again) which are currently holding this franchise back from being the best once again. I will just summarise the points which I find good and bad to make this quick and painless:
Positives:
+ graphically fantastic
+ improved player A.I. and personality (players get angry if not played regularly)
+ keeps that satisfying PES feeling of slotting into the back of the net
Negatives:
- the "much catalogued" sprinting bug (see almost all other reviews)
- often VERY questionable refereeing decisions leave you frustrated
- very little control over goalkeeper (minimal control over distance/direction of dropkicks and throws)
- stats of players decrease immensley when played out of position (I realise what Konami are trying to do here, but, playing Gareth Bale on the right wing for example wouldn't automatically make him twice as slow in real life, would it?)
It's not a bad game but I think that given the amount of competition from the FIFA brand (which I have also played this year) that Konami really need to do better and address many of these niggly issues which have left a large number of people disappointed. I remain a PES faithful, but for how long?...I think PES 2013 will answer that for me once and for all. Come on Konami, turn my frown upside down please!!
1 of 1 people found the following review helpful
Platform for Display:Xbox 360
Fun:
Having owned every single Pro Evolution Soccer, from the original PES to PES 2012, I think its safe to say that since PES "attempted" to meet next generation gaming, it has failed quite astonishingly. This game promised so much after last year's disappointment of PES 2011 in which the shooting, goalkeepers, passing, sprinting and general gameplay was absolutely attrocious. However, this year's installment of the once enjoyable and fantastic football simulation has also descended further down the scale of PES games, which seemed quite impossible after last year's let down. The only thing which PES 2012 has in its positives are the UEFA licenses for the Europa and Champions League. This doesn't mean that I wish that FIFA owned the rights for the Champions League as I also think that FIFA has in fact worsened over the years. This general review is more to point out that as computer gaming has advanced over the past few years, I'm sad to say that football games haven't quite managed to keep up as when playing these games, I believe the player just doesn't get a proper feel for football as everything seems far too outwith the players control.
Overall, I think that anyone should buy this game (or infact FIFA) at your peril as these 2 installments just don't strike me as football games for the purists
Overall, I think that anyone should buy this game (or infact FIFA) at your peril as these 2 installments just don't strike me as football games for the purists
Most Recent Customer Reviews
Nearly There!!
Having owned this game for a week now i decided to give a review of my expierience so far. Pes has been slipping further behind fifa for a good few years now, i have owned every... Read more
Published 22 days ago by Tim
Not what I expected
I was not happy at all with this Game , the graphics are actually quite good, I do however not like the fact that there are no SPL teams avaiable on this game . Read more
Published 1 month ago by julia
Excellent!!!!
It is one of my best games ever. Very natural and much more better than PES 2011.
Everything is updated according to the previous one.
Everything is updated according to the previous one.
Published 2 months ago by nikos
Love PES.... :)
Very good product, very fast delivery. Product within the range of the price. A good gift. Spend all my time playing this game! :)
Published 2 months ago by JLousada
PES12
Good game if you like football. FIFA 12 is a lot better but the become a legend and UEFA licences do make the game more playable. Read more
Published 3 months ago by JordyH
A complete regression
ITS IMPOSSIBLE TO SHOOT IN THIS GAME. HONESTLY, RARELY DO YOU SCORE FROM OUTSIDE THE BOX. PLEASE BRING BACK PES 4 AND PES 6 THE BEST GAMES EVER! Read more
Published 4 months ago by 16
Defending seriously broken
I have to admit that I loved the demo of this when it first came out and thought it would be a great game but oh how wrong I was. Read more
Published 4 months ago by S. Beckett
Better than FIFA
If u like a real soccer game, choose PES. Cant understand why people all rush to fifa12, whats the point
Published 4 months ago by Xie Shen
PES back on form!
The gameplay has been vastly improved on what has been a tough few years for Pro Evolution Soccer, culminating in one if the worst football games of all time in my opinion, PES... Read more
Published 5 months ago by Lewie
could've been great, yet far to frustrating!
This game in terms of gameplay is probably better then the previous past few PES games, however the realism and blatant conning by the CPU is beyond a joke! Read more
Published 5 months ago by Canonballkid
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