Does God Exist?: The Debate Between Theists and Atheists [Paperback]

This debate uniquely features some of the most famous philosophers of religions, the Atheists Nielsen and Flew.Both have a career of active and brilliant atheism, especially Nielsen, who is the most brilliant Atheist since the death of Mackie.

On the Theist side, Moreland plays the major role. Moreland uses excellent arguments, but makes a few minor mistakes. These mistakes are fortunately corrected by Craig, the most brilliant Theist philosopher. Actually the arguments that Moreland uses stem from Craig's research work (Kalam cosmological argument, teleology, resurrection of Christ...) and the Christians would have been much better represented if Craig had had the major role instead of repeating and correcting Moreland. (See Craig's book: "Reasonable faith". the books of Moreland and J. P. Geisler should also be consulted). The presentation of the Kalam argument, of the design argument and of the resurrection of Christ are compelling. On the other hand , the argument of religious experience is subjective and worthless. The contribution of Dallas Willard is disappointing, he kind of simply restates the points in a more intuitive, less formal way.

On the Atheist side Nielsen is very well completed by Flew. Nielsen major's point is to show that the concept of God is meaningless and is very smart in not trying to argue afterwards that "God" does not exist, which would refute his own point about the meaningless of "God". We can see here how Nielsen is superior to other famous Atheist philosophers such as M. Martin, who in his book "Atheism: a philosophical justification" first argues that the word "God" is meaningless, and then ridiculously argues that "God" does not exist! Flew does a good job of critizing some of the attributes of God, yet not His existence. Parson is very disappointing, attacking the design argument with a myth like the theory of evolution (ignoring that it is disproved by paleontology, embryology, biochemistry, see the books of Michael Denton, Michael Behe or Philip Johnson...). He accuses the Christians of scientific ignorance, yet naively thinks that life appeared through processes of natural selection whereas such were impossible before the apparition of life. Parson also grossly fails to understand the time maths of the Kalam argument, and his misunderstanding is ridiculed by Moreland in his closing speech. (Intelligent Atheist refutes this argument, see the debate between Craig and Smith in " Theism, Atheism, and Big Bang Cosmology").

There is also another and shorter part in the book which is a debate between Nielsen and Moreland on morality. Nielsen's point is that one can simply be a moral person without being religious. Moreland argues that the tiny, ephemeral Atheists cannot rationally ground any morality in a huge, blind, uncaring and purposeless universe. Neither can Atheists be rational in helping other people if it is not beneficial to them. Moreland wins easily and brillantely here, but I do not know if it is possible for an Atheist to have any rational basis for ultimate morality (the good of humans), unless one has "an unjustifiable bias towards one's own species" as Moreland points out.

Conclusion: This debate, which features 6 of the most prominent Atheist and Theist philosophers is absolutely unique. It is without comparaison with the old (1948), famous debate between Copleston and Russel. This book is absolutely worth buying. For those who are not scared by a heavy discussion, I can recommend the debate between William Craig and the Atheist Smith in " Theism, Atheism, and Big Bang Cosmology", 1993.

However, I encourage interested parties from both sides to borrow the book from someone who already owns it (e.g., a professor or a local library). I just wouldn't recommend spending money on the book when the atheist debater did such a poor job representing atheism. Even theistic philosophers would agree that Nielsen could have defended atheism in the debate better than he did -- much better in fact -- and that's why I discourage buying the book. And because theistic philosophers care about the truth, even they would admit that atheism wasn't represented as well as it could have been. (For example, most theistic philosophers I have read endorse J.L. Mackie's _Miracle of Theism_ as one of the best philosophical cases for atheism. They don't agree with the book, but they agree that Mackie's book is one of the best cases for atheism in the philosophical literature. And if you asked any of those theistic philosophers, they would tell you that Nielsen did not use any of Mackie's arguments. Therefore, Nielsen's arguments are not representative of the best arguments for atheism.)

Moreland gave two arguments for theism: the comsological argument and the argument that God resurrected Jesus from the dead. We have responded to both of these arguments (thought not necessarily to Moreland specifically) on the Secular Web, and would welcome an exchange with Moreland should he want to answer our rebuttals. ENDISBN:0553455982 TITLE:Under the Tuscan Sun AUTHOR: Frances Mayes SOURCE:Marguerite Sowaal (muggs@lucernevalley.net) DISPLAY-EMAIL:yes USER-LOCATION:California, USA TIME:890368798 RATING:5 ORIGINAL-RATING:10/10 PRIORITY:2500 SUMMARY:Mayes is amazing REVIEW: UNDER THE TUSCAN SUN is a book of discovery - a melange of land and language, food and custom, longing and fulfillment. It is a thoroughly enjoyable read about the people and customs of a small Italian village - Cortona - and a charming old villa, Bramasole, that two American teachers attempt to restore. Frances Mayes invites the reader to enjoy with her the warmth of an Italian sun, the smell of a meal rich in garlic and herbs, and the simple joy of a walk through the countryside of Tuscany. To those readers who will never experience, in person, the sights and sounds of an Italian village; who will never dig in the earth to find a remnant of ancient history; or try to understand the carefree work ethic of rural foreign labor, UNDER THE TUSCAN SUN is as close as it gets. And even better, the recipes the author has included can be made in an American kitchen and eaten with the eyes closed and the imagination running,

Mayes recounts her trials and frustrations, her discoveries and delights, and in so doing gives a lesson in optimism and perseverance. With her we experience a freedom she describes as "that pure surge of pleasure, flash flood of joy, to find that electric jolt of the ouside place that corresponds to the inside."